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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#761

Post by homonculus1 »

jumbopapa wrote: post #743
onli wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

I genuinely do not believe the access to the guns are the issue here. There are plenty of ways to accomplish something like this without a gun, so removing the guns from the picture would just change the method. It's lazy to just say that "gun control will fix this" because you're ignoring solving the actual problem of why people are doing this.

If it were a gun access problem then it would have peaked when gun access was easiest, i.e. back when machine guns were sold by mail order.

Now it's happening in a time of rampant depression, polarization, social isolation, 24-hour news, and social media. That can't be a coincidence.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#762

Post by ryanmercer »

coldtea wrote: post #720
king_magic wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those always sounded like noble, wise words. And maybe they once were. But in age when white supremacy/fascism/nazism/strongman-leader-ism is rising again, I’m no longer sure I agree with them.

Because Voltaire's age was so peaceful and didn't have those things? (Voltaire didn't said it exactly, it's a later quote. But he said words to the same effect, and it's by itself a good quote).

>Because Voltaire's age was so peaceful and didn't have those things?

Voltaire wasn't a youth bullying youth to the point that they killed themselves.

Voltaire wasn't a man sitting in his living room sexually harassing and shaming women in an organized effort after they are selected as a target by some random person online for blocking them after receiving dick pics.

Voltaire wasn't encouraging anonymous strangers on the internet to make death threats to high profile persons.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#763

Post by maxehmookau »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

"any controversy at all means losing access to anything internet related"

No, no, no. Let's not put this in the box of "any controversy". This is not that.

This is people using an online forum to breed their hatred of a race of human being which led to more than one mass-shooting event and one of the providers who played a part in supporting them said enough was enough.

White supremacists/Nazis are bad. There isn't a subjective measurement of "badness" when it comes to white supremacy. It is bad. They have proven themselves to be bad. Society needs to stop being so tolerant of intolerance.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#764

Post by bufferoverflow »

toyg wrote: post #667
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

That's a false equivocation. Squatters and offensive people are not the same.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#765

Post by toyg »

dfox wrote: post #753
jorams wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. How often does that happen in countries where squatting itself is not illegal?

I'm genuinely curious in which countries squatting is not illegal. On the other hand cutting off utility service to squatters seems like somewhat different case and another thing I'm curious about is how the squatters managed to get the service itself in the first place as that usually requires either consent and active participation of previous user at the same address or proving that you have legal right to use the…

In the countries I've lived in (IT, GB), utilities are not routinely shut off when somebody leaves the premises, nor does the utility company know (or care about) who is or is not the rightful owner of a given property. As the last occupier, you just tell the company you're leaving on day X and that's it. Squatters come in and just keep using pipes, or even take out new contracts in their names.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#766

Post by bart_spoon »

jumbopapa wrote: post #743
onli wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

I genuinely do not believe the access to the guns are the issue here. There are plenty of ways to accomplish something like this without a gun, so removing the guns from the picture would just change the method. It's lazy to just say that "gun control will fix this" because you're ignoring solving the actual problem of why people are doing this.

On the contrary, its lazy to assume that gun control won't fix the issue, because it implicitly assumes the massive difference between the US and other nations in violent murders is due to some other, vague, unexplained societal malady that somehow is only a problem in the US and not in other first world countries. Occam's razor would assume that the unique extent to which firearms are readily available in the US probably has a major connection to the unique extent to which mass shootings and gun violence occurs. Even if you were to make the argument that the underlying issues, whatever those may be, would persist, it is absolutely progress to have mass murderers be forced to utilize something like a knife than head on down the street and pick up an automatic/semi-automatic weapon.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#767

Post by raxxorrax »

boomlinde wrote: post #709
PunchTornado wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I think people should be free to say their opionions online and offline, no matter how bad those opinions are. I disagree with cloudfare's decision.

> I think people should be free to say their opionions online and offline, no matter how bad those opinions are. So do I, but outside essential utility monopolies, I also believe that no one should be forced to facilitate those opinions. That Cloudflare choose not to do so is ultimately an expression of their own opinions and values.

Or they were "convinced" from outside from people that think their opinions to be worth a damn.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#768

Post by toyg »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #764
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

That's a false equivocation. Squatters and offensive people are not the same.

The type of squatters that authorities take drastic action against, are typically of the "offensive" variety (far-right and far-left groups).

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#769

Post by faissaloo »

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #708
CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

“I may disagree with what you say but will defend with you your right to say it.” - Voltaire

"I may not want you to have sex with my wife but I will defend to the death your right to do so" - Me

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#770

Post by michannne »

mort96 wrote: post #234
sytelus wrote: post #205

This is the same argument cake shops make against taking order from gay people. I do believe that so-called manifesto is mind-numbingly dumb, fact-free and it is dangerous in the sense it will inspire more violence against innocent people. But that precisely what makes it a good test case for asking some fundamental questions. Can commercial businesses with deep reach, pricing power and critical function deny service…

Taking orders from gay people and hosting services for sites which support far-right terrorism aren't exactly the same though. We can be against suppressing gay people and for suppressing far-right terrorism even if the means by which the suppression happens is similar.

They are. Taking infrastructure away from gay people to buy coffee is exactly the same thing as taking infrastructure away from random people on the internet. The only circumstance in which either of these should be tolerated is when there is a direct threat to US national security (imminent terrorism) or a crime has been committed. Neither of these has happened.
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