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Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

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Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#751
post #667
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you even talking about? It’s normal for young students to be using a pencil to write for multiple hours in a day in school.

With breaks, and it's also normal that in a class of ~30 you'll still find a couple students with cramps.

Won’t someone think about the students who get cramps from typing on keyboards as well??

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#752
post #202

Nobody would hire a chess coach and then use Stockfish to cheat on the problems. Whatever the students are paying for here, it certainly isn't an education.

It depends. If you hired a chess coach, and they hired an opening coach for you just for openings, and that coach had you write a weekly 12 page report about why d4 was popular, and include a section about the methodology you used, you could both care about your chess education, and decide to cheat and have ai write that opening paper for you every week.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#753

> He has conclusive evidence that at least 50 students cheated on the March midterm exam, making it the biggest known scandal at Brown and in the entire Ivy League I'd like a citation for this being the "biggest known scandal" in the "entire Ivy League". Frequently such situations are kept somewhat quiet, for a variety of reasons. But fifty students is not a large number in courses that can enroll hundreds or up to a…

by far, the biggest, most insane cheating scandal in the ivy league is the Replication Crisis by the professors.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#754
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> challenge "hand writing is harder to revise" What? Suppose you want to fix the opening of your essay. Best case it's pencil and you can erase some, but worst case you have a longer sentence you want to put in there so you can't do it without scribbling all over and making a mess of the page. Word processors let you edit. How is this controversial? > why is the speed it takes to write it at all relevant? Okay, so fr…

> 5. Therefore, anything that enables people to write faster is good for the students, who can get more paper written, or the paper better revised, during the finite time available for writing. I think you're missing some logic in there somewhere. If a student fills in as many pages as they can, each with the number 1 written on it as large as possible, was this a good conclusion? The quantity of writing is not a goo…

Not sure why you're getting so hyperbolic. The point isn't to write as much as possible, it's to be able to get all of your points across. I'm not talking about where the "answer" is 10 words long, I was thinking of a general essay. Longer isn't better, however, half an essay may be pretty useless to get a good grade, and if you can write twice as fast, you have a much less chance of running out of time, for any quantity of "time" without having to allocate hours, wasting more proctor time and making exams harder to schedule. Because like someone else said, they don't impose a time limit to screw the slowest-writing students, they do it for practicality (my above comment was trying to explain that).

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fine to erase or use scratch paper on an essay test. You don’t write the test to fill the 60 minute slot. You time it so students are able to finish early if they’re really good. Slow ones need the whole time but can still do well if they understand the material being tested.

I don't generally get why tests are designed to rush a student. Is speed a proxy for understanding?

I literally explained this above. No one is trying to rush the students or punish the slowest writers. It's because time is finite and having tests sized so that it's impossible for the slowest test-taker to even feel rushed means that the test time period needs to be much longer. That means higher costs for paying the proctor and makes them much harder to schedule since you need enough very long non-overlapping test periods that every standard class scheduling slot has a corresponding exam period (and think of midterms -- those often have to fit in a standard class period, or else if someone takes longer, that might blow through another class).

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average, people have slightly less than two legs.

However the average person has exactly two. That's because "average" can mean either median, mean or mode depending on context.

I might just be stretching my point... but if I remember Treasure Island (1883) correctly, the mean person had only one leg.

Sorry! I'll see myself out.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been able to handwrite well and my family suspects I have dysgraphia. I can write, but slowly and unreadably. But I can type over 160 wpm. Typing for me is strictly superior, probably by an order of magnitude.

It’s rather peculiar that people are downvoting somebody sharing their perfectly valid perspective..

I'm used to it

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#758
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fruit of labor? Good students of science produce novel science..as in testable ideas without precedent.. a thing llms struggle with, as they at best can interpolate and mash up previous ideas

Many good students don't produce such artifacts. That's one of the big problems in academia -- a smart person with good ideas can inadvertently pursue a less promising path and not produce ground-breaking research, so how do you tease that apart from somebody scamming the system? The current approach is to measure unrelated bullshit like citation metrics. I'd hate to see those sorts of perverse incentives pushed down…

Or maybe you can be smart but have no ideas in quantity and quality, thus you rig the systems in your favour to not be dethroned by those who can. But that would show by number of innovations per yearafter a systemic shakeup like a war.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#759
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many good students don't produce such artifacts. That's one of the big problems in academia -- a smart person with good ideas can inadvertently pursue a less promising path and not produce ground-breaking research, so how do you tease that apart from somebody scamming the system? The current approach is to measure unrelated bullshit like citation metrics. I'd hate to see those sorts of perverse incentives pushed down…

Or maybe you can be smart but have no ideas in quantity and quality, thus you rig the systems in your favour to not be dethroned by those who can. But that would show by number of innovations per yearafter a systemic shakeup like a war.

It shows up easily at a macro level of you look at total "innovations" for a society (and have a good way to measure that -- currently still in an "I know it when I see it" stage). It won't usually show up in individual researchers. A few will absolutely be insanely productive with real innovations, but unless you're proposing only hiring that small cast of individuals then you're back to the problem of distinguishing good scientific ideas and methods which just didn't pan out from other forms of actual laziness and fraud given that in both cases you see no meaningful output from the researcher in question.

Re: Professor denounces mass AI fraud on an exam at Brown

#760
post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should anything more complicated than what could be automated with a paper ScanTron form really be subject to automated grading anyway?

Right? For all the money paid by modern students is it unreasonable to expect some expert human interaction? The cost explosion has been centered outside the classroom, elsewhere in the org, so can't play that card.

Professors basically arent paid, really. All judgments about the matter take place inside the Baumol cost illusion. Study the total collapse of pay since the 50s as measured against other highly trained services like physicians nurses dentists.
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