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Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

nytimes.com

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Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#751

Post by ordu »

abalashov wrote: post #377

This is insane. I cannot fathom how I, nor educated and talented people I know, could have possibly stayed in the US back in the day if this requirement had been in place then. Applying for a greencard while working on an H, J or O-class visa is extremely common. Far from a loophole, applying from inside the US is the only reasonable way to apply for a greencard. Depending on the country of origin, there may not even…

> Whoever thought of this is either intentionally malevolent or inexcusably incomprehending of the immigration process.

It surprises me a lot. You can be a politician making a career on a hatred of immigrants, but your prosperity is bound to the prosperity of USA, so why to destroy it? It cannot be just malevolent, it is plain sheer stupidity. It seems to me even worse than roman elites fighting their civil wars while Rome itself was crumbling. They were in a situation of a tragedy of commons, stupid but understandable. But USA politicians really going against immigration is just something else. You can always look tough on immigrants while not hurting brain drain from all over the world.

There were dumb rumors that Trump is a Kremlin agent, but now I don't think they are so dumb. It is not enough to be a fool to inflict so much damage to USA.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#752

Post by jmward01 »

I personally can't understand anyone wanting to move to the US anymore except for extreme reasons. And, yes, I have actually lived in several other countries so I know how green the grass can be in different places. So with how ugly the US is being right now, what is holding back the remote worker from turning truly remote, at least in tech?

For clarity here, I don't think this is a great direction. A massive strength of America has always been its ability to draw immigrants. People that are willing to leave their families, cultures, etc behind are generally a cut above the average and it shows. The US is being, in a word, stupid and we are already paying the price for it and will for generations to come.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#753

Post by runtime_terror »

xdennis wrote: post #397
hellojesus wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part that is the wildest to me. The current system seems to generate a collection of second-class citizens: people we openly rely on for labor but that have no recourse if they're exploited and no regulatory protections such as minimum wage (even though I argue against min wage, if we're going to have it, have it!). My personal preference would be to allow nearly unlimited legal immigration but strip welf…

> The current system seems to generate a collection of second-class citizens Poor choice of words. Illegals are not citizens. That's the whole point. > have no recourse if they're exploited The recourse is to go back. In the era when you could just immigrate to the US just by getting on a boat (before the Immigration Act of 1924), about 1/3 of immigrants went back to their home country if they did not make it in the…

There are no leftists in power in the US government outside of maybe a very small handful. We have not had a leftist president or majority ever, unless you just group neo-liberal democrats into that bucket, which would just be wrong...

Even if true (and it's not), what even is your point? Do you not think people that work and pay taxes should get any benefits? Do you think it's ok that people are exploited if they're immigrants?

It's not like undocumented immigrants even get welfare or other social programs, but they do have to pay taxes. Interesting enough, they even commit 50% less crime than citizens.

To think these people can't be exploited and that it's trivial to return to their home countries shows a lack of critical thinking.

For example, many of these people flee countries that have dire situations directly caused by US interventions over the past decades including most of Central and South America.

The list of countries that have had their democratically elected leaders overthrown or were otherwise destabilized by the US and its corporate elite is long and well documented.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#754

Post by martin-t »

My colleague organizes workshops for gifted teenagers interested in tech/science in Europe. He often asks them if they want to go study abroad. A few years back, most of them would say they want to go to the US. Now none of them do. This is not hyperbole - he said literally 0 wanted to go to the US.

Maybe that country still has some prestige somewhere else and people still want to apply but definitely not here. We've been watching the country sabotage itself and take a nosedive for a while now. The latest president is just the cherry on top.

I hope the rest of the world learns from this but I doubt it actually will.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#755

Post by waveBidder »

AmazingEveryDay wrote: post #676
TehCorwiz wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cruelty is the point. They want people to leave so they can refuse to allow them back in. That's the goal. It's not more complicated than that.

> The cruelty is the point. This phrase is one of those viral ear worm kinda things tossed into so many conversations, it doesn't actually mean anything at this point it's so overused.

it's a specific claim, they want to set up the process to be so onerous that immigrants self-deport

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#756

Post by wiseowise »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #359
esalman wrote: post #280

I received my green card in 2023 and I have mixed emotions. On one hand, I'm so relieved that I have been able to dodge everything that the administration has been throwing at immigrant (legal and illegal alike), trying to see what sticks, like mass deportations, border wall expansion, visa restrictions, asylum crackdown, H-1B cuts, and chain Migration Ban. On the other hand, we cannot apply for citizenship for 3 mor…

> and paid over $100,000 in taxes last year alone Genuinely curious, what does taxes have to do with it? Everyone pays taxes, legal or illegal in some form. I don’t think paying your dues should make you more likely to get through the pipeline. After all, you paid those taxes because you made good money, which is what people come here for.

> After all, you paid those taxes because you made good money, which is what people come here for.

You mean they’ve contributed generously for the compensation they’ve earned?

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#757

Post by freetonik »

testing22321 wrote: post #655
varenc wrote: post #443

The internal memo on this is interesting: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/PM-... Essentially they're trying to change the rules by aggressive re-interpretation of the existing legal framework, and not actually changing any laws or regulations. I don't follow all of it, but it seems to be arguing that the "ordinary consular process", leaving the country and applying for a visa from abroad, is…

I don’t want to defend the cure administration, but it’s very common and normal for a country to require a person to leave to change status. Every time my Canadian work visa expired I had to drive over the border, enter the US, turn around and drive back to start the new one. The border guards call it “flag-poling” because you do a U turn around the flag pole. When I went from work visa to permanent resident I had to…

That’s strange. I was able to renew a work permit in Canada while staying (and continuing work) in Canada. Same for study permit. This was over a decade ago, so perhaps things have changed.

They also were not called visas, but permits. Visa is for entering the country, permit is for staying.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#758

Post by cjfd »

abalashov wrote: post #377

This is insane. I cannot fathom how I, nor educated and talented people I know, could have possibly stayed in the US back in the day if this requirement had been in place then. Applying for a greencard while working on an H, J or O-class visa is extremely common. Far from a loophole, applying from inside the US is the only reasonable way to apply for a greencard. Depending on the country of origin, there may not even…

Well, the short summary of it all is that the US is the very curious case of a superpower attempting to become a third world country.

Re: Green card seekers must leave U.S. to apply, Trump administration says

#759

Post by bulbar »

ornornor wrote: post #108
bulbar wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens as well in Germany and it's pure insanity. The US at least does not depend on migration as much as Germany, I believe. Even the current right wing party CDU doesn't seem to want to make migration harder, but when the extremist party AfD gets voted into office, an already highly damaged balance will break. Sad how people become so detected from reality that they make their society irrelevant and destroying a l…

> The US at least does not depend on migration as much as Germany, I believe. To me it feels like the US pretends they don’t need immigrants when: 1. The overwhelming majority of current US residents were immigrants themselves at some point in the last 150 years (only natives were there, everyone else immigrated from somewhere) 2. The US wouldn’t function without illegal immigrants 3. Every country is short of worker…

In the Netherland, as an immigrant - not sure if always, but definitely in tech - 30% of your income are tax free for the first 5 years. I am actually looking for jobs there right now because of that.
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