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The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

techtrenches.dev

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Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#751

Post by rapnie »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #742
aleqs wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, in the minds of these people 'firing at 100% all the time' generally means doing busywork and/or thinking of ways to cheat/manipulate their customers and the market for maximum gain whole delivering minimum value. I would have loved to be 100% engaged working on solving real problems in honest ways at some of my past jobs, but alas MBA/marketing leadership, which has taken over much of tech has very l…

> generally means doing busywork and/or thinking of ways to cheat/manipulate their customers and the market for maximum gain whole delivering minimum value When I read comments like this I can’t help but wonder where people like you work. It’s completely unrepeatable to me. I work with really good people, all the way to the tip, and no try to make money by increasing value for our customers. Apple, Google, Walmart, A…

The parents are talking about things in-the-large, negative societal trends, while you are talking your anecdotal experience and perhaps survival bias striking it so lucky with your employer. The world offers unimaginable riches, but at what cost really? Who benefits most? Where does it lead? Big picture.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#752

Post by d3Xt3r »

sminchev wrote: post #717

This is like saying: nobody can do woodworking with with manual tools anymore these days, because there are machines since 30 years that do woodworking. There will be always a room for good developers.

Yes, but it's very hard to find quality handmade furniture these days, or even capable carpenters for that matter. I visited a few older relatives recently and realised most of them have really well made 50+ yr old pieces of furniture with detailed, intricate design - which you can't get these days.

And unfortunately the same trend is already being seen in code - just look at the vast amount of utterly rubbish apps going around. Even popular apps like BitWarden are being coded in Javascript and built with Electron, and somehow people think that's acceptable. I was shocked to find out recently that even bitwarden-cli was also coded in Javascript.

And now AI has just compounded the problem exponentially. Just look at the state of Windows 11 for instance, which I'm forced to use at work. Thankfully, Linux and macOS are faring a bit better, but for how long?

Sure, good developers may always exist, but I'm afraid their work will get drowned in a sea of garbage - and we're forced to swim in it.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#753

Post by xantronix »

aldanor wrote: post #359
TonyAlicea10 wrote: post #210

“Money was never the constraint. Knowledge was.” The irony is how difficult it is to read this obviously AI-generated article due to its unnatural prose and choppy flow full of LLM-isms. The ability to write is also a skill that atrophies. Even when AI is understandably used due to language fluency, I’d prefer to read an AI translation over a generated article. If you don’t care enough to write it, why should I care…

Not the factory floor. The receiving end. It wasn’t one bottleneck. It was all of them. Not the nuclear material. The pattern. Money was never the constraint. Knowledge was. ...

The advantage of Bored Ape NFTs is that one could very quickly visually identify one and block or scroll past without much thought. On the other hand, reading AI slop takes a few extra cycles to parse out and categorise appropriately, with the occasional false evaluations and second guesses. It will be a fine day, indeed, when this pattern of writing fucks off forever.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#754

Post by xhevahir »

sgt wrote: post #173
jdw64 wrote: post #17

The real issue, in my view, is not AI itself. The problem is a management pattern: removing people and organizational slack because they don’t generate immediate profit, and then expecting the knowledge to still be there when it’s needed. Short-term cost cutting leads to less junior hiring, and removes the slack that experienced engineers need in order to teach. As a result, tacit knowledge stops being transferred. W…

You sound convincing, but it also reads very AI generated. A lot of people will stop reading half way.

People downvoting the above should consider whether the genetic fallacy is really so much a fallacy when we're talking to a bunch of machines.

I'm pretty sure the parent comment is the work of a bot, and I have no interest in talking to an automated sock puppet.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#755

Post by d3Xt3r »

frogperson wrote: post #642

There is no incentive to work hard for most organizations. They will take credit for all your work and maybe give you a $1000 bonus at the end of the year, if they havent laid you off by that time.

You guys get bonuses?! I've been working for 15+ years (various organisations) and have never once seen a year-end bonus, or even heard of anyone getting one here.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#756

Post by breezybottom »

WalterBright wrote: post #643
cowmix wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know who his wealth was transferred from, exactly. But I do know what he’s using it for now: as a gravitational force to unilaterally screw with public institutions and systems the rest of us depend on. Even if you agree with some of DOGE projects’s goals, the way it operated was wildly thoughtless about consequences beyond Musk’s personal wishes, and almost completely unaccountable. I’m honestly sick that my…

Musk's money came from creating a business that was worth a lot of money. I.e. he created his wealth. It was not transferred to him. The same goes for Bezos, Jobs, Gates, etc.

Buying an ownership stake in an established business and forcing them to give you a "co-founder" title isn't "creating a business".

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#757

Post by breezybottom »

WalterBright wrote: post #675
kmijyiyxfbklao wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always trick investors. For example all the overpromising Musk has done over the years. Also when you are that famous you can sell lower quality goods for a higher price that people will buy because they are associated to you.

All true. That's why there are laws against fraud. What do you think of the tricks that California pulled to have billions vanish with not a mile of track laid? Or all those hospices with no beds? Or this fun one: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/does-noth... Unfortunately, as a taxpayer, I am on the hook for those tricks. With a business, I can do some due diligence and then decide if I want to get…

That's what Elon Musk said, and yet DOGE has lead to zero fraud lawsuits

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#758

Post by defrost »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #664
defrost wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you've chosen to address me directly I'll reply honestly, I have zero concern about Cuba, Venezuela, any of the 190+ countries on the planet, wanting to join or form BRICs. I have considerably more concern about the ability of a post MAGA USofA to successfully navigate such a world via soft power as they appear to have flushed all the competent diplomatic talent down a golden toilet.

> I have zero concern about Cuba, Venezuela, any of the 190+ countries on the planet But somehow you are extremely concerned about one country which is on the other side of planet of you.

Pardon my ignorance here;

which country are you talking about, what trade bloc are they trying to join, and what extreme concern have I expressed?

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#759

Post by marcosdumay »

skydhash wrote: post #263
2ndorderthought wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally this type of behavior played a large part in why I left 2 oss communities. A lot of the passerbys nowadays feel like trolls. They come in copy pasting chatgpt responses spamming they need help instead of chit chatting asking questions. We fix their problems, they don't trust us or understand at all. Or worse we tell them their situation is unreasonably bad and they should start over, they scream at us abou…

I’m subscribed to a couple of mailing list and follow the archive of a few others. I wonder if the friction associated with the medium is why I haven’t seen those shenanigans?

I think we are going to see a large movement of designing friction in the next decade.

Re: The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code

#760

Post by nomel »

gonzalohm wrote: post #276
Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it’s something more fundamental and broad than that. We slowly remove excuses to talk to other people. The thought crossed my mind the other day — if I’m asking the AI a question, that’s replacing a human interaction I would have had with a coworker. It’s not just in coding, it’s everything. With ChatGPT always available in your pocket, what social interactions is it replacing? The thing that gets me is,…

I think you are right, but it also makes sense. Human communication is inherently inefficient. Points of view, miscommunication, interpretation... It's the obvious point to automate. Not defending it, just my thoughts

I have a couple of colleagues that run all communication through an LLM. It really helps their writing, but it does nothing to help their understanding.

It also makes me hate communicating with them because they'll (somewhat obviously) prompt the LLM to make the conclusion they want. For example, "respond to this jira with why this isn't an issue"

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