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Oracle slashes 30k jobs

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Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#751

Post by nocommandline »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #737
kyledrake wrote: post #157

The bulk of the comments in here are focused on comparing Larry Ellison to a lawn mower, so I'll try a new tack and say that I'm genuinely confused at what the value prop of Oracle is. Given the history of their business model being licensing of important databases that are hard to switch off of, I've actually made a point to avoid using Oracle as much as possible (even so far as to leave MySQL when they acquired it,…

If you want to build a system of monolith services and be locked into a 30 year old waterfall development model, then Oracle is for you. I’ve had this argument with several DBAs. They always claim “Oracle is the most performant,” while quite possibly true technically, they also tend to run a single massive instance that inevitably leads to a complete failure of the site under heavy load. Oracle is often designed to b…

> and be locked into a 30 year old waterfall development model,

Oracle switched from Waterfall development model to sprint years ago. They also switched from yearly to quarterly releases (for their Apps) which means they deliver a lot of features in a year.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#752

Post by Twirrim »

ahtihn wrote: post #493
niek_pas wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a result, today is your last working day. As a European, I never realized that this is allowed under US labor law. That is absolutely insane. EDIT: some commentors have pointed out that the workers collect severance and unemployment --- I was not aware this is law in California, and that changes matters. I would, though, still find being suddenly out of a job fairly traumatic.

As a European, this seems normal? When someone is fired, they generally stop working immediately while getting paid through the notice period.

In the US there is no notice period. In every state (with the exception of Montana), employees are "At Will" only. There is no notice period, or severance pay required by law. Health insurance goes with your job, too, as do any other benefits (something called COBRA lets you pay to continue your health insurance coverage for a few months with the expectation you'll have found a new job and/or coverage)

In the US, one day you can have a job, the next none and you'd better hope you've got enough money saved up to cover rent/mortgage, food etc.

That was by far the biggest culture shock when I moved to the states, and really acted as the big "Oh shit, it really is a government by the businesses, for the businesses".

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#753

Post by qwerpy »

codemog wrote: post #6

Don’t work for evil companies.

Counterpoint, work for companies that pay a lot regardless of good/evil. I worked for an evil company and got paid an insane amount. Got laid off. Am now happily retired in my early 40s.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#754

Post by kstrauser »

nocommandline wrote: post #751
SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to build a system of monolith services and be locked into a 30 year old waterfall development model, then Oracle is for you. I’ve had this argument with several DBAs. They always claim “Oracle is the most performant,” while quite possibly true technically, they also tend to run a single massive instance that inevitably leads to a complete failure of the site under heavy load. Oracle is often designed to b…

> and be locked into a 30 year old waterfall development model, Oracle switched from Waterfall development model to sprint years ago. They also switched from yearly to quarterly releases (for their Apps) which means they deliver a lot of features in a year.

> They also switched from yearly to quarterly releases (for their Apps) which means they deliver a lot of features in a year.

Without commenting on whether this is true of Oracle, that conclusion doesn't inherently follow from the given. If I'm driving 60 miles per hour, then recalculate it in miles per minute, that doesn't actually mean I'm going faster. Oracle could easily be delivering 1/8 a year's worth of features in 1/4 a year due to release process overhead for all I'd know.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#755

Post by kstrauser »

xtracto wrote: post #642
kyledrake wrote: post #157

The bulk of the comments in here are focused on comparing Larry Ellison to a lawn mower, so I'll try a new tack and say that I'm genuinely confused at what the value prop of Oracle is. Given the history of their business model being licensing of important databases that are hard to switch off of, I've actually made a point to avoid using Oracle as much as possible (even so far as to leave MySQL when they acquired it,…

I just read a tech "policy" document of one of the largest packaged food makers in Mexico. They explicitly say they ONLY use paid services/software to ensure there is liability and support. There are A Lot of businesses thar are happy to burn cash for a false sense of security. They don't know better.

> They explicitly say they ONLY use paid services/software to ensure there is liability and support.

Hahahahaha. Yes, by all means, call IBM or Oracle and ask them to compensate you for downtime. Support, sure, of a sort. If you throw enough money at them, you'll get an answer from them in an arbitrarily short time frame.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#756

Post by the_gipsy »

dryarzeg wrote: post #35
baal80spam wrote: post #16

Let's not forget that ORACLE is actually an acronym.

"One Rich A*[CENSORED] Called Larry Ellison"? : ) EDIT: LOL, I haven't expected to be downvoted for simply putting this in a way I like : )

You type out Larry Ellison, but not Asshole?

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#757

Post by nitwit005 »

jaccola wrote: post #342
wnevets wrote: post #308

Very often people will defend these kind of layouts as the result of overhiring but then shouldn't the leadership that over hired 30K people also be held accountable?

I think this sucks for the people being laid off but what exactly should they be held accountable for? It's not like over-hiring or laying people off is a crime. The employees presumably knew the deal going in (that they could be laid off). They got compensated for the time they worked. No one owed them a job at Oracle in the first place. (Again, not to diminish how bad it feels / shocking it can be to be laid off!)

They aren't suggesting a criminal or moral failure, just being bad at their job.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#758

Post by heresie-dabord »

chekibreki wrote: post #110

Full text of e-mail: We are sharing some difficult news regarding your position. After careful consideration of Oracle’s current business needs, we have made the decision to eliminate your role as part of a broader organizational change. As a result, today is your last working day. We are grateful for your dedication, hard work, and the impact you have made during your time with us. After signing your termination pap…

"After careful consideration of Oracle’s current business needs, we the Oracle Leadership have realised that we don't really know what we are doing.

We never have.

But we do know that someone must pay for our incompetence and lack of vision. That someone is YOU. So you are fired.

Thank you for any contributions that you made that still bring us profits.

Oracle Leadership"

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#759

Post by Tuna-Fish »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #150
nimbius wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame it on whatever you like. oracle has been a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. - overpricing the database led to a predictable exodus and new players with often times better performance. - acquisition of MySQL led to a predictable exodus and new players like maria with often times better performance. - Oracle cloud arrived late to spectacular skepticism and low user turnout from customers who had been bur…

> a rudderless leech for nearly 30 years now. Yeah, from small interactions over the past two decades, I have no idea how they could have been so bad while employing so many people. What on earth were those 30k people doing?! Their solutions were crap for ages.

The Oracle codebase is legendarily gnarly. Doing even small things takes forever and a mountain of work.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#760

Post by gravypod »

bcantrill wrote: post #730
oblio wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, at least it's better than your other one. https://landley.net/history/mirror/linux/kissedagirl.html

For whatever it's worth (perhaps not much?), I was actually asked about this three-decade-old post (!) recently on the Peterman Pod[0], which allowed for a slightly more nuanced discussion. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhSL-5GtmQM&t=3757s

I really can't think of a better way to respond to this situation. It is clear to me that over the next decade the amount of people who will have been hot-headed kids on the internet who grow up to fully-fledged adults who have said they no longer agree with things in ways that are not kind is going to be a lot higher. I've no doubt said things that I no longer agreed with that made sense in the context of when they were posted.

Thank you for being a good role model and setting the example that saying "that was bad, here is the context, but I don't like that I said that."

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