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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uncontrolled profileration of AI-CSAM makes detection of "genuine" data much harder I don't follow. If the prosecutor can't find evidence of a crime and a person is not charged, that is considered harmful? As such the 5th amendment would fall under the same category and so would encryption. Making law enforcement have to work harder to find evidence of a crime cannot be criminalized unless you can come up with a re…

If there is a glut of legal, AI generated CSAM material then this provides a lot of deniability for criminal creators/spreaders that cause genuine harm, and reduces "vigilance" of prosecutors, too ("it's probably just AI generated anyway..."). You could make a multitude of arguments against that perspective, but at least there is a conclusive reason for legal restrictions. > What is the criteria for this? My criteria…

> You could make a multitude of arguments against that perspective, but at least there is a conclusive reason for legal restrictions.

But that reason is highly problematic. Laws should be able to stand on their own for their reasons. Saying 'this makes enforcement of other laws harder' does not do that. You could use the same reasoning against encryption.

> You could make the same argument that a hidden camera in a locker room never causes any harm as long as it stays undetected; that is not very convincing to me.

I thought you were saying that the kids who were in the dataset that the model was trained on would be harmed. I agree with what I assume you meant based on your reply, which is people who had their likeness altered are harmed.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your hypothetical scenario, why aren't the school kids making and distributing fake nudes of his daughter be the ones getting in trouble? Have we a outsourced all accountability for the crimes of humans to AI now?

It's not hypothetical. And in fact the girl who was being targeted was expelled not the boys who did it [1]. Those boys absolutely should be held accountable. But I also don't think that Grok should be able to quickly and easily generate fake revenge porn for minors. [1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/girl-...

The police got it right.

> When the sheriff's department looked into the case, they took the opposite actions. They charged two of the boys who'd been accused of sharing explicit images — and not the girl.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#754
post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforcement of anti-CSAM law has been a significant thing for a long time. It's in no way "only now". Even the "free speech" platforms banned it because they knew they would get raided otherwise. There are long standing tools for dealing with it, such as a database of known hashes of material. There's even a little box you can tick in Cloudflare to automatically check outgoing material from your own site against that…

> What's new is that X automated the production of obscene or sexualised images by providing grok. Yes we are now dealing with an automated Photoshop. And somehow the people in charge have decided to do something about it, probably more for political or maybe darker reasons. So let me make a suggestion: maybe France or the EU should ban its citizen from investing in the upcoming SpaceX/xAI IPO, and also Microsoft, NV…

> maybe France or the EU should ban its citizen from investing in the upcoming SpaceX/xAI IPO, and also Microsoft, NVIDIA, OpenAI, Google, Meta, Adobe, etc. ?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand any of the arguments above.

If we presume a dark control motivation then having shares in the entities you want to control is the best form of control there is.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#755
post #583

[flagged]

It has always been illegal and morally reprehensible to create, own, distribute or store sexually explicit material that represents a real person without their consent, regardless if they are underage or not. Grok is a platform that is enabling this en masse. If xAI can't bring in guardrails or limit who can access these capabilities, then they deserve what's coming to them.

>It has always been illegal and morally reprehensible to create, own, distribute or store sexually explicit material that represents a real person without their consent, regardless if they are underage or not.

Arguably morally reprehensible but it has not always been illegal (and still isn't in many places) if you're talking about images of adults.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#756
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that mesh with all the safe harbour provisions we've depended on to make the modern internet, though?

The safe harbor provisions largely protect X from the content that the users post (within reason). Suddenly Grok/X were actually producing the objectionable content. Users were making gross requests and then an LLM owned by X, using X servers and X code would generate the illegal material and then post it to the website. The entity responsible is no longer done user but instead the company itself.

So, if someone hosts an image editor as web app, are they liable if someone uses that editor to create CP?

I honestly don't follow it. People creating nudes of others and using the Internet to distribute it can be sued for defamation, sure. I don't think the people hosting the service should be liable themselves, just like people hosting Tor nodes shouldn't be liable by what users of the Tor Network do.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#757
post #41
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CSAM does not have a universal definition. Strange that there was no disagreement before "AI", right? Yet now we have a clutch of new "definitions" all of which dilute and weaken the meaning. > In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. No corroboration found on web. Quite the contrary, in fact: "Sweden does not have a legislativ…

In Swedish: https://www.regeringen.se/contentassets/5f881006d4d346b199ca... > Även en bild där ett barn t.ex. genom speciella kameraarrangemang framställs på ett sätt som är ägnat att vädja till sexualdriften, utan att det avbildade barnet kan sägas ha deltagit i ett sexuellt beteende vid avbildningen, kan omfattas av bestämmelsen. Which translated means that the children does not have to be apart of sexual acts and…

Thanks, but CSAM includes abuse, and the offence of your quote (via Google Translate) does not.

Your quote's offence looks like child porn. Max. 2 years jail. CSAM goes up to life, at least here in UK. Quite a difference.

> But it's safe to say that many images produces by Grok are CSAM by Swedish standards.

So the Govt/police would have acted against Grok, right? Have they?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#758
post #552
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it sounds to me like a "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" kind of operation. France and the UK, and judging by yesterday's speech by the PM of Spain maybe the whole EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media by making it impossible to operate without total alignment with their vision and not just their (new) rules. Together with a…

> EU might be looking to do what China and Russia did earlier on and start cracking down on foreign social media For some reason you forgot to mention "Like the US did with TikTok".

The old “Rules for thee but not for me”.
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