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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#751

Post by 0x457 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #734
0x457 wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when I worked under the table and was out of status, I always had enough documents to get Real ID (but couldn't due to status). For context, at one point I couldn't even get AB60 license in California because I didn't have a single photo ID that isn't expired, and you just need some photo id and pulse to get AB60. > Will the DMV accept a purchase order from Amazon? DMV accepted my marriage license and bank state…

That's an interesting point about the bank statement. However you still need a second document IIUC. And to even open an account in the first place won't you need similar documentation? I've never tried opening one while in that position - I've always just brought my passport in with me while cursing KYC laws. So assuming you already have a regular driver's license and a bank account this would make the requirement t…

> However you still need a second document IIUC. And to even open an account in the first place won't you need similar documentation?

Nope, KYC rules are different from Real ID rules. Banks accept more documents ad PoA. It comes down to: does the person have access to banking or not because it's the easiest PoA.

> How does that improve security? Why do I need any ID at all in the first place? If the concern is weapons or explosives then just search for those ... which they already do.

Like I said in the original message - every state has different requirements for IDs. I was able to get California AB-60 with just paper (no RFID) foreign passport that looked like I made it myself and laminated at it at FedEx.

> 3. pay fee for "real" ID 4. wait a while.

I don't know how other states do it, but I'm pretty sure in CA it's the same time it takes to get a regular ID. and the fee difference is like $20?

> Another thought occurs to me. What if I grab a homeless person off the street and attempt to fly with him? So now there's an additional $45 "no ID" fee?

Well, that person still needs some ID to fly? I'm against that tho, I'd start enforcing real id years ago if it were up to me.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#752

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo »

kmoser wrote: post #738
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have all come out clean on pacemakers and mmWave. No detectable interference in the hardware or on an EKG while in a mmWave scanner. I could imagine other conditions potentially but pacemakers have been ruled a non issue for mmWave by academic studies (albeit I can understand still exercising caution despite that).

Have they done thorough, decades-long studies on millimeter-wave machines to ensure they have absolutely no long-term adverse health effects?

Tbh I'm not sure but they've done accelerated dosage testing to simulate long term use by repeatedly exposing people to use of the machine over a more frequent period of time.

But mmWave really just is not dangerous. Current generation 5G cellular and WiFi standards are mmWave and they are just as harmless.

Molecular damage just starts showing up with THF/terahertz emissions band but mmWave is in the EHF and is has more than 10x the wavelength of THF (i.e. it is far wider/more gentle than THF). In a very real sense mmWave can't even interact with most of the molecules in your body.

mmWave can interact with the water in your body but at the levels it's being used it's only really useful for seeing the water. You'd needs orders of magnitude more powerful emissions than what these scanners use to actually cause damage at that frequency.

i.e. It's the difference between using the flashlight on your phone to see in the dark and using the concentrated light from solar-thermal heliostats to boil water or heat molten salt. No matter how hard you try, your flashlight is never gonna boil water.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#754

Post by toast0 »

asdf_snar wrote: post #702
duskdozer wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for the "standard American perspective," but no, you should not have to show identification. Why should someone need to be tracked to travel? Why does a ticket need to be associated to identity?

I'm not stating that they should be. I first want to make sure this is not just a question of the "Real ID". I can think of a couple of reasons that would throw a wrench in the works: - passengers on no-fly lists or criminals - anyone who is underage -- do we let 10 year-olds fly alone? how do you assess age without ID? what if the child gets lost while traveling, and you can't even determine whether the child boarde…

> anyone who is underage -- do we let 10 year-olds fly alone? how do you assess age without ID?

Most children don't carry ID. And most ID for children doesn't even have a photograph. For travel that doesn't require a passport, you just have to deal with asking the child or their travel companions.

> baggage claim: if there is no link between ticket and person, what's to stop me from claiming anyone's luggage as my own?

I can't recall being challenged as to my identity for any luggage I've picked up from the carousel. This was as true in 1997, when it was the focus of a major motion picture [1], as it is today. Regardless, having possession of the matching luggage receipt for a tag should really be sufficient to pick up a bag.

> I admit my personal bias is that "taking a plane = passport" even when traveling domestically (I'm not a US citizen)

That's a reasonable personal bias, but presuming you're subject to mandatory alien registration and you're eighteen or older, you have a legal requirement to register and carry proof of registration. Citizens are not generally required to be registered with the federal government, or to carry proof of registration or other identity documents; although enough things require a social security number that the vast majority of citizens are registered and enumerated by SSA, and enumeration at birth is the default, but a very small number of citizens manage to be born without a birth certificate being issued.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_Heads_in_a_Duffel_Bag

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#755

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

stonogo wrote: post #740
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes so we are going to optimize an entire system for this mythical “working poor” business traveler? Every contractor has to do that. That’s the price you pay for going into that business (reason #999 thet while I work in cloud consulting I work full time for consulting companies). Even as a business traveler, I have to pay my own expenses and wait for reimbursement.

I wasn't aware anyone had made the argument that this was an attempt to optimize anything. It's pretty obvious nobody's optimized anything in the TSA, ever.

It’s pretty optimal if you have TSA PreCheck + digital ID.

I fly in and out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US and one of the busiest in the world - I walk up to the TSA line, look at the camera , scan my ticket.

Then I take my wallet and my phone out of my pocket and put in my book bag, let it go through the scanner I walk through the scanner and grab my bookbag

This is the same process we did flying back from Costa Rica and London last year with the addition of showing our passport.

Everyone acts like this process is so much different than any other country.

Except for not having my book bag on me, it’s the same process to get on the “Chunnel” from London to Paris

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#756

Post by AngryData »

kube-system wrote: post #615
AngryData wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that all those other consideration only matter for international travel, while for domestic travel its an obvious waste of time from every angle.

Why would you think that? All four of the hijacked flights that led to the creation of the TSA were domestic flights.

And how many of those would additional federal ID have prevented?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#757

Post by MattGaiser »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #673
MattGaiser wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone. Is there a study on this? As I would have thought the opposite and would bet that the number driving alone is increasing as more people live alone.

Its intuitive, costs don’t scale to travel per family member when you drive from A to B like it does when you fly.

That does not mean that they have someone to travel with though. It would make sense that more trips in groups are by road. But is that much group travel happening in the first place?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#758

Post by kube-system »

AngryData wrote: post #756
kube-system wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think that? All four of the hijacked flights that led to the creation of the TSA were domestic flights.

And how many of those would additional federal ID have prevented?

Pre 9/11 you didn’t even need an ID to board a flight. And you could take a knife with you.

Having a reliable ID system is only useful if you have a security apparatus to check them, which literally did not exist then.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#759

Post by K0balt »

int_19h wrote: post #728
ghaff wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if I had a "Crap, what was that doing in there?" I'd be very quiet about it. As I wrote in a very different thread, I avoid putting anything in baggage that I might carryon that is even marginally prohibited. I used to do a lot more travel and it's inevitable that knives and the like would inevitable get left in a pocket.

Some of us genuinely believe all that "cops are there to help you, so try to be helpful to cops" stuff we were raised on. Right up until the point when you actually try to do it and find out how things really work...

At the time I was very naive. I actually thought it was my civic duty lol.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#760

Post by K0balt »

thinkingemote wrote: post #523
K0balt wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the club. I inadvertently traveled with not one, but two large box cutters in my carryon satchel for at least 20 flights before I discovered them while searching for some swag. I put them in there for a booth setup in Vegas years prior. Sent a completely calm, even sympathetic report to the powers that be, got put on the DNF list for my troubles. Still screened and detained 100 percent of the time, sometim…

You sent a report saying you were not searched for 20 times and now you are searched all the time? Has it been over 20 times that you have been searched?

lol. No, I’m definitely winning the search transaction! I got way more than I paid for!
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