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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No it's not. The term originated far before this debacle, and carries a meaningful distinction than just "installing". Specifically it means installing from a non-first party source It's amazing how many confidently wrong people are springing up out of the wordwork to present revisionist history about the meaning of "install" like it's ancient wisdom. Pre-mobile computing treated "install" as neutral and primary and…

2007 https://xdaforums.com/t/sandisk-announcement.316860/ 2009 https://xdaforums.com/t/android-market-updates-on-sideloaded... 2012 https://xdaforums.com/t/app-wifi-band-switcher-switch-betwee... 2014 https://xdaforums.com/t/q-att-htc-one-m8-not-working-explana... 2020 https://xdaforums.com/t/app-mono_-flipfont-custom-ttf-instal... This is a long standing term of art. If you're ignorant of a big part of the industry,…

Oops, try taking a second look at your own links! I said "Sideloading as a term of art originally, in practice came into usage for transferring media to devices".

Your first link actually fits the description I gave, yet you're presenting it here as if unacknowledged.

Most of the usages you link to are in the paradigm of rom flashing or physical media data transfer, and don't even have the upshot of implying that "install" means download from preferred distributor, which is critical since that's what this whole thread is about. Hilariously, even your own links contain numerous casual references to "install" to describe the ordinary act of transferring files into the phone outside of the play store. Which is devastating for your point if your point is that sideloading is supposed to be exclusive term for that action, and that "install" has a long-standing and specific usage as meaning "distributed from Play Store."

Scattershot usage from people flashing ROMs or finding workaround hacks for hardware errors don't demonstrate that that vocabulary was as widely understood in the public consciousness as a settled meaning for sideload much less that the term install exclusively refers to downloading from the Play Store. And again importantly for this thread, it actually shows an evolution of the term that predominantly was about workaround hacks and rom flashing, which has now grown to comprehensively mean any installation of an app from outside the Play Store. If anything, that's a demonstration of a neologism.

And as a kid who grew up on Windows computers in the late '90s and early 2000s, it astonishes me that I have to say this but computing existed before 2009, and gives us a history from which we can draw when figuring out the established use of terms.

And again, as I already said, this sideload/install usage is unique to Android, not observed on Windows, Linux or even Apple. Giving me a bunch of links to a form of usage that I already accounted for in my own comment, and not addressing the more important part of my comment about the prevalence of install as a distribution neutral term, disregarding the history of computing prior to Android and outside of Android is an unfortunate misunderstanding of what your links do and don't say in this context.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#752
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't. Chromium (since 67) does USB interface class filtering to prevent access to sensitive devices. Then there is the blacklist you mentioned. On top of that, straight from Yubico's site: ".. The user must approve access on a per website, per device basis .." This isn't any more a security hole than people clicking "yes" on UAC prompts that try to install malware.

> ".. The user must approve access on a per website, per device basis .." Of course, but a phishing website "fake-bank.com" could collect user's username, password, and then prompt them to touch their yubikey. This wouldn't trigger any alarm bells because it's part of the expected flow. > This isn't any more a security hole than people clicking "yes" on UAC prompts that try to install malware. Yes it is. The only rea…

Again, that exploit factor is irrelevant now because WebUSB is blacklisted from accessing, among other things, HID class devices. So no site, even with permission, can access U2F devices over WebUSB. There is no special blacklist needed per vendor or anything.

You are right that it was a security hole in Chrome <67. Which is almost a decade in the past by now.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#753
post #676
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a theoretical issue. It’s a major problem is several countries, the governments are getting involved.

Are the governments also coercing Microsoft to restrict Windows users to the Windows app store?

No. In the impacted nations the issue is with the (vast) majority of people who only own an android phone.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#754
post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clicking the username of every commenter I read just to account for details they should've put in the comment.

Well too bad, otherwise you would have found it quicker than the time it took to write two comments.

Nah, the comments I'm responding to don't really take that much effort. ;P

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#755
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat model doesn't work. It depends on Apple doing their job, and even $99/year doesn't prevent Apple from signing a Trojan horse of your competitor: https://blog.lastpass.com/posts/warning-fraudulent-app-imper... You want to talk about confusing Grandma? Why isn't Lastpass the first entry on the App Store when you search for it verbatim ? At the going rate, installing signed software is more deceptive than sea…

Not sure if anyone should be installing Lastpass. It's been massively hacked in 2022 and 2024, and there's currently an ongoing attack (Jan 2026).

Looks like some people are downvoting me for revealing that Lastpass is unsafe, LOL.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#756
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false. The ones you can get here in Slovenia don't have them. I've personally helped quite a few friends sideload them. I also remember how shocked people were to find out there's no YouTube or Play Store after buying a Huawei or Xiaomi phone when that first came into effect.

Correct, same in Germany. Here is a photo I shot last December in an electronics store. Aurora Store is now official, I guess. https://imgur.com/a/v6zaRYo

Huawei is the exception due to specific sanctions on Huawei.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your initial question was "How are they on par SoC-wise?" They are on par because they now sometimes beat Apple top of the line A-chips on performance be it single core, multicores or GPU and do so within a power budget which allows the phone they ship in to be competitive screen-on time wise. Apple doesn't have a one generation lead anymore which is a huge change compared to only three years ago. You are moving the…

The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption. If we were to look at more thorough reviews, e.g. Geekerwan, they always include TDP and power consumption, because that gives the necessary context to understand the results. And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improve…

> And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improved their designs, but they aren’t on par when we account all the things that matter.

Hardly, you are intentionally looking at peak consumption because it suits the answer you want after being proved wrong. This is nicely highlighted by how you want to casually dismiss benchmarks which don't support your point.

> Your argument is that, since manufacturers are putting larger batteries in phones, SoC power consumption shouldn’t matter. That is moving the goalpost, because you introduce a variable that should be irrelevant to SoC performance testing to dismiss my observation.

No, that is looking at the actual experience of using the phone. Peak consumption is a useless metric. Nobody cares. People care about their phone feeling smooth and how often they have to charge. From this point of view, Apple has no lead whatsoever provided by their SoC while they used to which is the point I have been making from the start.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your initial question was "How are they on par SoC-wise?" They are on par because they now sometimes beat Apple top of the line A-chips on performance be it single core, multicores or GPU and do so within a power budget which allows the phone they ship in to be competitive screen-on time wise. Apple doesn't have a one generation lead anymore which is a huge change compared to only three years ago. You are moving the…

The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption. If we were to look at more thorough reviews, e.g. Geekerwan, they always include TDP and power consumption, because that gives the necessary context to understand the results. And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improve…

[deleted]

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption. If we were to look at more thorough reviews, e.g. Geekerwan, they always include TDP and power consumption, because that gives the necessary context to understand the results. And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improve…

> And obviously I’m not denying that Mediatek and Qualcomm have massively improved their designs, but they aren’t on par when we account all the things that matter. Hardly, you are intentionally looking at peak consumption because it suits the answer you want after being proved wrong. This is nicely highlighted by how you want to casually dismiss benchmarks which don't support your point. > Your argument is that, sin…

I'll just copy & paste this bit:

> The whole claim that Qualcomm is on par with Apple predicates upon results from benchmarking tools, which stress CPU and GPU and thus induce peak power consumption.

If you are saying that Qualcomm and Mediatek are on par with Apple because they perform the same in Geekbench, then we have to talk about peak power consumption and TDP. But regardless, even if we were to look at average power consumption over time, Elite Gen 5 still tops the A19 Pro by more than *20%*.

> No, that is looking at the actual experience of using the phone. Peak consumption is a useless metric. Nobody cares. People care about their phone feeling smooth and how often they have to charge. From this point of view, Apple has no lead whatsoever provided by their SoC while they used to which is the point I have been making from the start.

Speaking of moving goalposts...

This whole paragraph makes no sense. First you said that Qualcomm is on par with Apple based off benchmarks. Now, if peak consumption doesn't matter, therefore benchmarks don't either, so we have to compare the "experience" of using a phone? How do you quantify that? Which phone would you compare an iPhone with? Does every single phone with an Elite Gen 5 perform exactly the same? Do we choose the Poco F8 Ultra, which seems to throttle and stutter quite frequently, or the OnePlus 15, which reaches external temperatures of 50C?

Anyway, pick a lane, or at least make a good point, because this ain't one.

Unrelated, but this whole thing reminds me of how, back in the day, some manufacturers would put a desktop CPU and GPU inside a laptop as thick as a brick, fed the 10Kg monstrosity with a 400W power adapter, and call it "the fastest laptop ever", which could be technically true, but was very, very wrong.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's many iOS only apps that either don't have anything comparable on android or the alternative is just nowhere near as good (a lot of it is more creative-focused stuff)

Would you mind mentioning at least one? Not something niche (as there is lotso of niche apps in Playstore which appstore will never see) but something sizeable userbase would install?

Flightly is really popular on iOS, there's not really a comparable android version. Gentler Streak and a lot of fitness app also don't have comparable android versions - most of the examples I can think of are apps that focus (and charge for) good design
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