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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#751

Post by v0id24 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #315
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

Why then don't people unite against the dominance of not very friendly and culturally alien migrants, Muslims?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#752

Post by rpjt »

mc32 wrote: post #360
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Just because a bunch of people jumped off a bridge means you’re gonna do the same thing? I would literally never look to Russia as an example of anything to emulate so why would I give a shit what they do?

It’s a diverse sample of many kinds of countries with a diverse set of cultures and and governance and yet they all control entry into their countries.

But why, in recent years, has the US not taken border control seriously?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#753

Post by willmarch »

RickJWagner wrote: post #748
willmarch wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are several off the top of my head with sources and videos: Peaceful protester/protest crowd attacked: (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1qcyvqt/ice_shoo... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/lostgeneration/comments/1qcbpac/hug... (video) https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/1qceoy4/shards_o... U.S. Citizen arrested/detained for having an accent: https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1…

Please pick one. Videos don’t show full context. I will try to run to the ground ( as well as I can ) one of these. Which would you say is the one that best makes your case?

Okay, go for the first one where ICE shoots a pastor directly in the head from a rooftop with a pepper ball (their claimed reason was they were blocking a vehicle, but in the video the pastor is on the sidewalk and there is no vehicle in sight anywhere. Also, that is not the way that sort of weapon is supposed to be used for crowd control as it could seriously injure someone).

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#754

Post by BuckRogers »

andruby wrote: post #150
BuckRogers wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And what happens when they deport you, "BuckRogers"? Proving whether or not someone is supposed to be here requires due process. If they pick up the wrong person (because people have the same name, or look alike, or any reason) and deport them, then what? Are you going to accept that you or your family or friends get deported? We shouldn't accept any false positives. And that's what due process is.

It's not that hard. I can prove I'm not here illegally in under 30 seconds. I have my passport digital ID and my state driver's license (Real ID) in my Apple Wallet. I also have my passport and Real ID in my house. I know my Social Security number by heart.

The last thing I worry about at night is my accidental deportation.

Due process is being abused as a process and term, to pretend we have to tie up the courts for years with some sort of nonsense debate between the government and lawyers about someone's legal status. It's just to stop American law and order from being enforced. People aren't putting up with this whole situation anymore and ultimately we're in control.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#755

Post by framenotre »

Erem wrote: post #457
framenotre wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there will be mistakes made. But it's for the collective good of the country.

Perhaps, if there is good faith effort to minimize that impact on citizens and legal immigrants. Please, please take the time to read that article. Share if you think the administration is making those good faith efforts based on your read.

[flagged]

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#756

Post by scarecrowbob »

flipgimble wrote: post #732
rybosworld wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are Americans so passive? I think it's important to realize how divided the U.S. is right now. Half the country is in favor of what ICE is doing in some form or another. Some people on the right are denouncing the _way_ ICE is accomplishing this. But they are far from outraged. The other half of the country is as dumbfounded/shocked as the rest of the world. This isn't like the French revolution where a majorit…

I know what you mean about the country being split politically, but I think using the 50% number is a misleading illusion. Only 31.8% of the voting-age population voted for Trump, so 68% did not vote for these policies. I get that we often assume that the non-voting population is as evenly split in their support as those who voted during the election. But I think that is going to be wildly off the mark as well. Why?…

As someone who was waving a "fuck ice" flag on a street corner in rural Colorado yesterday as part of our weekly protest of their facility, anecdotally I'd say about 60% of the 100 or so cars I watched looked away, with about 30% showing some active support and the other 10% or so showing active opposition.

I don't think that folks are braodly supportive of ICE here, though I think that a) the folks who do support it are loud and b) most of the folks who don't support it have fairly reformist politics and are opposed, for instance, to us protesting while open-carrying.

For the record, I am highly worried that open-carrying by the counter-ICE folks at these events will be the next escalation- I carry a stop-the-bleed kit (and did some formal training). We are more worried about getting shot by counter protestors at this point.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#757

Post by unstyledcontent »

jawilson2 wrote: post #8
unstyledcontent wrote: post #2

Make no mistake, the immigration enforcement operations in Minnesota are only a training ground for how to undermine civil rights for us all. Everyone is ok targeting te immigrant populations because they are "illegal" or live in a gray area of legality. But eventually these same tools will be used against us.

> Everyone is ok targeting te immigrant populations No, we're not.

I meant "we" in the sense that our country has yet to put an end to it and there is still a majority of people either actively in support of ICE or remaining silent.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#758

Post by unstyledcontent »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #99
jawilson2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone is ok targeting te immigrant populations No, we're not.

I think the GP means the collective "we" is OK with it, evidenced simply by the fact that it is happening.

Yes, thank you.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#759

Post by scarecrowbob »

embedding-shape wrote: post #493
throwaway853578 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You know what actually doesn't do a damn thing? Not doing a damn thing. Literally anything is better than nothing, just showing support is better than nothing. Talking about it is better than nothing. That's fair. And I'm talking about it right now and everywhere else I can in safe ways. As far as protesting goes, I agree with you. It is better than nothing. It does help show people they're not alone. But as I said…

If nothing else, thank you for sharing your honest perspective, I appreciate it :) > Or I suppose a more truthful way of saying it is it's not worth it for me because of the sacrifices I'd have to make just for the chance of getting hurt or being added to a list. It's really sad to hear that the chilling effect is working so effectively. I of course understand why you make the choice you make, that's not strange, but…

Just to chip in:

going to small protests has done a lot of good for my ability to regulate. Being involved with a cadre of street medics has made me feel a little less crazy.

It's nice to get off line and into the streets- the reasons are terrifying but it feels better to be with my friends in the road than to be at home fretting about stuff and writing dumb HN responses :D

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#760

Post by Amezarak »

NonHyloMorph wrote: post #735
Amezarak wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Due process” is not a magic incantation. This is emotional, moralizing rhetoric that doesn’t persuade anyone. People who insert themselves into operations involving the state’s actors who have a monopoly on violence are risking their lives and legal jurisprudence has upheld the state’s actions to stop them by whatever means necessary in similar cases many, many times. And it’s obvious things could not operate in any…

The term to consider here is >extrajudical killing< As in: Someone wotking for the executive kills another citizen, without 1) a need to do so for selfdefense 2) any justification from the judicary for it, and that without being charged for murder/aggrevated manslaugther. The argument: they are not doing what this law enforcement person wants do do of them (whether that obstruction is legal or not), so they are free…

The argument is that people recklessly driving their vehicles with a total disregard for the lives around them are a danger to the people in front of their car and anyone else on the street, which is recognized by the Supreme Court even when nobody is directly in front of the car. They don’t have to wait until you kill someone and get tried for it. They can legally just shoot you under current law. That’s what the courts say.

Self-defense is, however, an entirely plausible defense in this scenario, even if the agent could have acted differently to not be in the path of someone already behaving erratically, and even if people only with the benefit of slo-mo multi-angle replays don’t think so. That’s why nobody is being charged. This happens all the time, unfortunately. The minute you choose to endanger people around you in the presence of people with guns, you’ve rolled the dice on your life.

So do you have any actual examples of what you’re describing?

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