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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#751

Post by bloomingeek »

mrexroad wrote: post #485
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

We bought our first minivan in 1998, a Ford Windstar. It was purchased to run our teenagers to activities, but I quickly fell in love with all the other things it could do, including what you've mentioned above. We put a ton of miles on it before trading it in. Next was a 2007 Town and Country with two sliding doors! By this time we were running grandkids and it was perfect.

After deciding to replace it, we struggled to decide what kind of vehicle to upgrade to. For our lifestyle and the side projects I like to do, another minivan was the obvious choice. Now it's a 2018 Pacifica and we're retired. The quality is outstanding, with 112K miles on it, I expect to put on another 100K before seeing what's available for the next upgrade. None of these vans ever gave us any engine or transmission trouble, despite the high number of miles I was able to put on them.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#752

Post by fnordpiglet »

senordevnyc wrote: post #619
iknowstuff wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~40% of global car sales are EV.

Yeah, what on earth are people even talking about here? EVs are clearly destroying ICE in the car market in terms of growth rates. Even without any government mandates, I highly doubt most new car sales in a decade will be ICE. There's just too many advantages to EVs, and ICE's few advantages keep slipping away.

The idea that complex Rube Goldberg machines powered by fire and explosions are somehow going to have a future compared to devices with minimal moving parts powered by a fundamental force of nature in its most pure form is absurd on the surface.

Americans and American companies often hold onto technologies long after they are clearly done for in the belief that hope and marketing and stubborn refusal to let go of some romantic view that gas stations and loud noisy slow devices that require constant maintenance are cool.

Toyota and others are rightly betting the American taste will be slow to swing, that our leadership is spineless and has no forward vision, and that they can keep monetizing old technology. What they are getting wrong is the inexorable force of economic and technological reality will strangle ICE manufacturers in a slow then sudden death. BYD, MG, etc are r through the regulatory grind while building their production and logistical capacity. Once they can penetrate the US market veil it’ll be over for Ford, GM, Toyota, and others. Tesla will have to cut margin so fast it’ll be dizzying.

If you’ve driven these Chinese EVs you’ll know the writing is on the wall, and as these legacy automakers cancel their last gasp attempt to be relevant in the future, they’ve ended their role in world manufacturing in the quixotic notion that hope is a strategy.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#753

Post by binkHN »

formerly_proven wrote: post #468
Hamuko wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't use your brakes and just regen all the time, you run the risk of having your brakes rust. https://nrsbrakes.com/blogs/supporting-articles/the-unused-b...

iirc some OEMs will automatically apply the brakes lightly during regular driving from time to time to counteract this

I know Rivian does this.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#754

Post by fnordpiglet »

dyauspitr wrote: post #656
instagib wrote: post #125

Maybe they can sell them at the announced prices instead of the inflated ones. Used is selling around $40k with 20-40,000 miles. New started at 40k, went to 60k for sale, pre-order fulfillment fell off a cliff so it sunk to 56k, and settled around 50k. 2022: 15,617 sold 2023: 24,165 2024: 33,510 2025: “Around 27,300 units sold in the U.S” $4k-$6k per battery module replacement. Full pack $25k-$50k.

8 years of battery warranty though.

After 10 years batteries tend to have about 80% charge retention and a usable life of 20+ years and have basically no maintenance for the life of the vehicle. So, economics work out well for EVs.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#755

Post by Aunche »

Aurornis wrote: post #748
Aunche wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the suburban equivalent of a yuppie's Rolex Submariner. The difference is that the Submariner can actually be used as a dive watch. If it turned to fail significantly more often than other dive watches underwater, people would be much less inclined to buy it even though it would literally make no difference for them.

> The difference is that the Submariner can actually be used as a dive watch. Are you suggesting that modern trucks can’t be used as trucks?

I mean the Cybertruck, and EV trucks in general to a certain extent, are rather lousy trucks, so they aren't seen as aspirational the same way a normal F150 or Submariner are.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#756

Post by antiframe »

scottyah wrote: post #351
alistairSH wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you're talking about high-power cars (M2, Corvette, etc). A Miata or Civic Type R will get far better fuel consumption. And there's also wear on the road, noise, and damage to property and people when accidents happen (physics is a bitch).

Sure, if you’re talking about high-power trucks (F350, Ram 3500). A Ford Maverick hybrid will get far better fuel consumption. I think more sports cars are burning out, revving loudly (or getting modified to take out their mufflers), and the damage from going a lot faster creates more damage.

It might depend on where you live. Nine times out of then when a vehicle with an obnoxiously loud and high revved gear vehicle drives by it's a truck. Probably more like 95% of the time.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#757

Post by fakedang »

billti wrote: post #13

I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift…

> So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. Kudos to Tesla for trying to break the mold and push the category somewhere new.

You haven't seen enough trucks and pickups then. The Cybertruck serves no utility purpose.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#758

Post by mdavid626 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #284
mdavid626 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you assuming 250kW chargers? …and cars which can charge that fast? Renault 5 EV charges with 11kW. This is the size of car I need.

If you often mowed a town park, you wouldn't buy a hand-push lawnmower and then be upset about lawn mower technology. The Renault 5 is a town car. Its specs are closer to a golf cart than a motorcar. It fills a niche, but if you are traveling often, a different EV would suite you better.

I see the confusion now.

People assume everyone has the same resources as they do. Your point would be fine, if Renault 5 would be very cheap.

But it’s not. It’s the car what many people can afford.

Thinking that people have “misconceptions”, because they don’t buy expensive EV-s, which have good capabilities, is very strange.

You say EV-s are good and people just don’t get it. But people who buy EV-s for 25k, their experience is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than in EV-s for 50k.

These people are buying those cars, because that’s what they can afford, not because they are stupid to see that a more expensive car can do better.

Look at 25k ICE cars. They offer lot more comfort regarding “charging”, as same price EV-s. They work in a city and outside city as well. No trade-offs.

That’s my point, when I say “price and range”.

———- Renault 5 EV is a pretty normal car in Europe regarding its specs. Why would it be a golf cart?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#759

Post by mdavid626 »

ac29 wrote: post #683
mdavid626 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you assuming 250kW chargers? …and cars which can charge that fast? Renault 5 EV charges with 11kW. This is the size of car I need.

> Renault 5 EV charges with 11kW. This is the size of car I need. AC only EVs dont exist in the US market any more AFAIK. Looking at the Renault 5 models currently available in the UK market, they dont have any AC only models either (maybe they do in other countries though).

What’s your point?

Can Renault 5 EV be charged in 30 min?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#760

Post by mdavid626 »

tzs wrote: post #694
mdavid626 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly the problem. I’d be happy to use an EV daily, as I drive short distances. But when I drive longer, then I don’t want to waste hours on charging. The other day I drove 700km in just about 5.5 hours (German Autobahn). Few stops to pee. With EV that would be few hours more (!). If this doesn’t bother you, then it’s fine. It matters to me though. Sometimes I also drive early in the morning 600km, and in th…

> The other day I drove 700km in just about 5.5 hours (German Autobahn). Few stops to pee. With EV that would be few hours more (!) If you got an EV with fast charging (and there were fast chargers on your route) it would actually be under 20 minutes more. For example Ioniq 5 has a range of ~480 km. Let's say you started at 100% and drive down to 10%. That gets you 430 km, so 270 km left to go. At a 350 kW charger th…

That’s actually pretty cool.

But “price and range/charging speed” still applies.

I can’t afford an expensive EV with fast charging, but I can afford a cheap ICE. I get it that in US people buy 100k cars as there is no tomorrow. But not everywhere it’s like that.

For 10k one can get a decent ICE. Can you get fast charging used EV for 10k?

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