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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#751
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments have been repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. That's not ok, and if you keep doing it we will have to ban your account. HN's rules don't change based on how right you are or feel you are, or how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

I'm sorry and will stop but isn't spreading false Hezbollah propaganda against the rules? How are we meant to respond to people saying incredibly wrong things?

Either reply productively to refute the things you disagree with, or flag the comment and move on.

Telling someone they’re insane is not that.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#752

I am in awe of the opinions in this thread. Really. If Israel, unprovoked, randomly carried out this attack it would be one thing. But: 1. Hezbollah had been continuously, deliberately firing rockets at civilians since October 8th, 2023 displacing tens of thousands and killing multiple civilians including 12 children in a playground in Majdal Shams. 2. Hezbollah embeds itself and fires from within civilian population…

Hezbollah stated repeatedly that they would stop attacking Israel if Israel stopped committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. I know I certainly support them.

> "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tptacek has been one of the more reasonable voices on this thread and it is odd you would single him out for criticism. Your use of the word "goybucks" is very concerning.

[flagged]

I apologized for correcting a comment from someone who I believe isn't in a place to discuss the issue, and who would predictably contest the claim --- since we'd already had the same disagreement elsewhere, bringing it up again, however valid my concern was, was bad for the thread. The apology was in no way whatsoever a reflection of my beliefs about what actually happened.

"Goybucks" is absolutely not OK here.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hezbollah stated repeatedly that they would stop attacking Israel if Israel stopped committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. I know I certainly support them.

> "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Yeah, I agree with them there. That’s just being anti-Zionist, which is a position held by most the world. That’s the equivalent of saying “our struggle will end when Nazi Germany is obliterated”.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I apologized for correcting a comment from someone who I believe isn't in a place to discuss the issue, and who would predictably contest the claim --- since we'd already had the same disagreement elsewhere, bringing it up again, however valid my concern was, was bad for the thread. The apology was in no way whatsoever a reflection of my beliefs about what actually happened. "Goybucks" is absolutely not OK here.

Jews use "goy" as a slur against non-Jews. As a so called "goy", I don't find "goybucks" offensive and in fact appreciate the attempt to reclaim the word.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#756

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

I have questions about the concept of legality in a war like the one between Hamas/Hezbollah and Israel. The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other, with leaders who can be held accountable for the orders they give. But does it still make sense to t…

Israel's entire mode of operations is to kidnap, kill and rape civilians. They even rioted for their right to rape prisoners to death.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#757
post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments have been repeatedly and egregiously breaking the site guidelines. That's not ok, and if you keep doing it we will have to ban your account. HN's rules don't change based on how right you are or feel you are, or how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

I'm sorry and will stop but isn't spreading false Hezbollah propaganda against the rules? How are we meant to respond to people saying incredibly wrong things?

The short answer is that you (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

For a longer answer, I need to clarify the principles we rely on. I'm happy to give that a try, as long as it's clear that I'm not commenting on the specific topic of this thread.

People are allowed to be wrong on Hacker News [2]. They have to be, because we're all more or less wrong about most things.

It's not that the truth doesn't matter—it matters enormously! But it's not the moderators' job to decide what is true vs. false. It's the community's job to hash that out through respectful discussion and debate. Mods couldn't do it even if we wanted to—we don't have a truth meter [3]. Plus the community wouldn't stand for it. There would be a huge backlash against the mods imposing their views on everyone else.

Wrongness is part of hashing out the truth. One needs to be free to visit wrong points in the solution space, or we'd all be trapped in a hell version of the old nine-dot puzzle (the one that spawned the phrase "thinking outside the box") with no solution.

"Spreading false propaganda" is, of course, an extreme case of wrongness, but the right scope for describing the principles here is wrongness-in-general, whether it's being wrong in an extreme way or just ordinary wrong-being.

It's true that posting in bad faith, e.g. saying wrong things despite knowing that they're wrong, is worse than just being mistaken. But can we decide who is and isn't doing this? That would require reading their mind and/or heart, and that's impossible—so we can't use that as a basis for moderation.

Internet readers are too quick to jump to the conclusion that someone else is posting in bad faith. Nearly always, the other person is as sincere as you are. It's just that their background is so different from yours that they've ended up holding an opposing view on a charged topic.

Most people find it hard to tolerate differences of opinion that are outside of a certain radius from their own position. We can call that the "comfort radius". In the past I've called it the "shill threshold" [4]. Past that radius or threshold, i.e. outside one's circle of comfort, it feels impossible that anyone could possibly hold such obviously-wrong views in good faith. The other person must be a shill, a propagandist, or worse. What other explanation could there be?

Well, here's the other explanation: that person has a background different enough from yours/mine/ours that entirely different things feel obvious to them. The world is much bigger and more diverse than your comfort radius, or mine, can easily allow for. If the delta between X's background and mine is big enough, X's views are going to feel not just wrong, but obviously and incredibly wrong, and—as the delta gets larger—appalling, barbaric, and so on.

So what should we do? We should assume good faith, because assuming bad faith is wrong far more often than it is right, and instead work on tolerating the distance between the other person's view and our own. By "tolerating the distance", I don't mean agreeing with them. I mean being willing to endure the discomfort and bad feeling in one's own system (the rage, fear, you name it) that comes up when encountering a view that feels obviously and incredibly wrong.

This is sometimes called "bearing the unpleasant manifestations of others" [5]. It is hard and takes practice. Actually, it's one of the hardest things we have to do, but also one of the most important. (I am not advertising this very attractively, but it does suck.)

To the extent we do it, a kind of metabolic process takes place where one's intense initial reactions get converted into a range where one becomes able to do what I described above: respond to false information with correct information, and to bad arguments with better arguments, while—I'll add one more thing—remaining in good-enough connection with each other.

Or to go back to short-answer mode: if you're hot under the collar, wait till you cool down before posting [6].

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35932851

[5] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

[6] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#758

I am in awe of the opinions in this thread. Really. If Israel, unprovoked, randomly carried out this attack it would be one thing. But: 1. Hezbollah had been continuously, deliberately firing rockets at civilians since October 8th, 2023 displacing tens of thousands and killing multiple civilians including 12 children in a playground in Majdal Shams. 2. Hezbollah embeds itself and fires from within civilian population…

Not only was Israel unprovoked, they have been the brutal aggressor for almost 100 years.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#759
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Israel, I would have not invaded Gaza, which would have resulted in far fewer civilian casualties, and also would have ended the strikes by Hezbollah. Also, if you look at the data on attacks by Israel against Lebanon, they are disproportionate, Israel launching 10x more airstrikes, even going so far as to level entire city blocks of apartment buildings in Beirut. I remember just on the first day of attacks…

The military dynamics of the Israel and Hezbollah conflict are an indictment of Israeli's Gaza campaign. When Israel is clear-eyed, strategic, and effective at confronting a serious military adversary, it looks like the Hezbollah conflict: ultra-targeted rapidly disabling strikes. That Israel instead systematically leveled an entire civilian metropolitan area to combat Hamas makes the the claims about the Hezbollah s…

Israel has killed at least 83 people since the ceasefire agreement in Lebanon. They are terrorists.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/28/how-many-people-has...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#760
post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. I am taking a denialist approach toward an absurd conspiracy theory that has been thoroughly debunked. What you’re doing instead is substituting facts for relevance. You went from a false claim (“Israel mailed bombs to Truman”) to a pile-on of unrelated historical violence, as if proving Jews committed any political violence somehow rescues your earlier claim for which there is zero evidence. It doesn’t. On…

This reminds me of other 20th century atrocity denial I read online. There is adequate evidence of the Truman bombing attempt. Regarding Lehi and Irgun, they were small because terrorist cells usually are. They operated with the permission of the government (evidence by the government ultimately demonstrating this when it dissolved them and incorporated many of them into itself), and involved people celebrated today…

The “20th century atrocity denial” comparison is disgusting and transparent. Holocaust denial is rejected because it contradicts a mountain of primary evidence. You are doing the opposite. You are trying to manufacture certainty where the documentation is missing, then calling anyone who asks for records a “denialist.”

On the Truman claim, you keep saying “adequate evidence” while producing none. The best you have is a biography by Truman’s daughter decades later that does not cite sources and newspaper blurbs repeating those claims. That is not “well documented.” That is the stuff of conspiracy theory.

Here is what you still have not provided: a contemporaneous Secret Service report, a White House mail log entry, an FBI memo, a case number, a preserved device, photographs, lab notes, arrests, indictments, or any archival file tying an actual bomb to Lehi. In fact, a FOIA request to the Secret Service for records of this alleged incident came back “no responsive documents,” and the Truman Library reports it has nothing and explicitly notes that Margaret Truman’s biographies rarely cite sources.

So no, you do not get to say “adequate evidence” and then hide behind moral outrage.

Your next move is equally sloppy. “They operated with the permission of the government.” In 1947 there was no Israeli government. When the state did exist, it disbanded Lehi, arrested members, and fought Irgun in the Altalena affair.

If you have a primary document tying a Truman mail bomb to Lehi, post it. If you do not, drop the Holocaust baiting and admit you are repeating an allegation you cannot substantiate.

And your finale, that Irgun and Lehi represent “the nature and spirit of the Israeli people today,” is just collectivist bigotry. “Terror cells are usually small,” you say, and then you claim two fringe militias somehow define millions of Israelis. That is not analysis. It is an ethnic smear.

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