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I don't care how well your "AI" works

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#751

Post by blackqueeriroh »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #690
idiotsecant wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is that the hacker ethos involved ... Fewer people being excited about programming? I don't think we experienced this on the same planet. Web 1.0 was full of weirdos doing cool weird stuff for the pure joy of discovery. That's the ethos we need back, and it's not incompatible with AI. The wrong turn we took was letting business overtake joy. That's a decision we can undo today by opting out of that whole e…

This is because in Web 1.0 times, only weird hacker types were capable of using the internet effectively. Normies (and weirdos who were weird in ways not related to familiarity with and interest in personal computer technology) were simply not using the internet in earnest, because it wasn't effective for their needs yet. Then people made that happen and now everyone is online, including boring normies with boring in…

> If you want a space where weird hacker values and doing stuff for the pure joy of discovery reign, gatekeep harder.

That’s not what was said. What they said is that they wanted more people doing things for the pure joy of discovery, and to make that happen, everyone needs to have more free time and less financial stress or be able to make fun stuff WAY faster, like with LLMs!

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#752

Post by blackqueeriroh »

jimbokun wrote: post #560
JohnBooty wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was very insightful. It made me think about how "hacker culture" has changed. I'm middle-aged. 30 years ago, hacker culture as I experienced it was about making cool stuff. It was also about the identity -- hackers were geeks. Intelligent, and a little (or a lot) different from the rest of society. Generally speaking, hackers could not avoid writing code. Whether it was shell scripts or HTML or Javascript or ful…

Well there are a lot of us very clear that our identities are being threatened and scared shitless we will lose the ability to pay our rent or buy food because of it.

We exist inside of capitalism - particularly late-stage deeply unregulated capitalism.

You are always very close to losing the ability to pay your rent or buy food not because your identity is being threatened but because a bunch of people who don’t care about you and only care about making money will happily lay you off without a second thought if they think it will make the even richer people above them happy.

And they will do this whether there is an AI boom or not.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#753

Post by blackqueeriroh »

ukFxqnLa2sBSBf6 wrote: post #397
easterncalculus wrote: post #244

> I find it particularly disillusioning to realize how deep the LLM brainworm is able to eat itself even into progressive hacker circles. That's the thing, hacker circles didn't always have this 'progressive' luddite mentality. This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. I don't like AI, generally. I am skeptical of corporate influence, I doubt AI 2027 and so-called 'AGI'. I'm certain we'll be "five years away"…

I consider myself progressive and my main issue with the technology is that it was created by stealing from people who have not been compensated in any way. I wouldn’t blame any artist that is fundamentally against this tech in every way. Good for them.

Many of those people have absolutely been compensated, many times over. Should they have a perpetual right to longer than their entire life, to profit off something they did 40 years ago?

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#754

Post by blackqueeriroh »

dweinus wrote: post #633
notJim wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every artist and creator of anything learned by engaging with other people's work. I see training AI as basically the same thing. Instead of training an organic mind, it's just training a neural network. If it reproduces works that are too similar to the original, that's obviously an issue, but that's the same as human artists.

This is a bad-faith argument, but even if I were to indulge it: human artists can/do get sued for mimicing the works of others for profit, which AI precisely does. Secondly, many of the works in question have explicit copyright terms that prohibit derivative works. They have built a multi-billion dollar industry on scaled theft. I don't see a more charitable interpretation.

LLMs don’t have to be able to mimic things. And go ahead and sue OpenAI and Anthropic! It won’t bother me at all. Fleece those guys. Take their money. It won’t stop LLMs, even if we bankrupted OpenAI and Anthropic.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#755

Post by blackqueeriroh »

jimbokun wrote: post #582
chemotaxis wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's why people can't post a meme, quote, article, whatever could be interpreted (very often, falsely) as AI-generated in a public channel, or ask a chatbot to explain a hand-drawn image without the off chance that they get an earful from one of these 'progressive' people. It happens, but I think it's pretty uncommon. What's a lot more common is people getting called out for offloading tasks to LLMs in a way that j…

The reason to be angry about the chatbot generated argument is that without sources it’s likely to have hallucinated a few things.

This is also quite true of most human generated arguments

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#756

Post by blackqueeriroh »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #478
chemotaxis wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's why people can't post a meme, quote, article, whatever could be interpreted (very often, falsely) as AI-generated in a public channel, or ask a chatbot to explain a hand-drawn image without the off chance that they get an earful from one of these 'progressive' people. It happens, but I think it's pretty uncommon. What's a lot more common is people getting called out for offloading tasks to LLMs in a way that j…

I'm looking at code at my tech job right now where someone AI outsourced it, didn't proofread it, and didn't realize a comparison table it built is just running over the same dataset twice causing every comparison to look "identical" even when the data isn't

Yes, but that isn’t the fault of the LLM. That’s human sloppiness. Humans have failed to review sloppy and bad code since people have been coding.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#757

Post by blackqueeriroh »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #441
easterncalculus wrote: post #244

> I find it particularly disillusioning to realize how deep the LLM brainworm is able to eat itself even into progressive hacker circles. That's the thing, hacker circles didn't always have this 'progressive' luddite mentality. This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. I don't like AI, generally. I am skeptical of corporate influence, I doubt AI 2027 and so-called 'AGI'. I'm certain we'll be "five years away"…

I have only experienced the exact opposite - AI tools being forced on employees left and right, and infinite starry eyed fake enthusiasm amongst a rising ocean of slop poisoning all communication and written human knowledge at scale. I am yet to see issues caused by restrain. > It's why people can't post a meme, quote, article, whatever could be interpreted (very often, falsely) as AI-generated in a public channel, o…

> I have only experienced the exact opposite - AI tools being forced on employees left and right, and infinite starry eyed fake enthusiasm amongst a rising ocean of slop poisoning all communication and written human knowledge at scale. > I am yet to see issues caused by restrain.

Again, how is that the fault of the technology?

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#758

Post by blackqueeriroh »

jimbokun wrote: post #587
thewebguyd wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we replace this "busy work" with AI, we are becoming collectively more stupid. I've seen this same thing said about Google. "If you outsource your memory to Google searching instead, you won't be able to do anything without and you'll become dumber." Maybe that did happen, but it didn't seem to result in any meaningful change on the whole. Instead, I got to waste less time memorizing things, or spending time lea…

If you extend Google to include social networks the damage to human mental health and well being is difficult to calculate.

But that is a design choice and not a fundamental property!

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#759

Post by blackqueeriroh »

nrclark wrote: post #343
easterncalculus wrote: post #244

> I find it particularly disillusioning to realize how deep the LLM brainworm is able to eat itself even into progressive hacker circles. That's the thing, hacker circles didn't always have this 'progressive' luddite mentality. This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. I don't like AI, generally. I am skeptical of corporate influence, I doubt AI 2027 and so-called 'AGI'. I'm certain we'll be "five years away"…

Ironically, the actual luddites weren't anti-technology at all. Mechanized looms at the time produced low-quality, low-durability cloth at low prices. The luddite pushback was more about the shift from durable to disposable. It's a message that's actually pretty relevant in an age of AI slop.

Show me AI slop and then I’ll immediately show you AI haute cuisine.

If you think LLMs only produce low effort garbage, you truly haven’t been paying attention.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#760

Post by esafak »

gavmor wrote: post #166
0xFEE1DEAD wrote: post #155

I honestly don't get vibe coding. I've tried it multiple times, but even after spending 4 hours on a fresh project I don't feel like I know what the hell is going on anymore. At that point I'm just guessing what the next prompt is to make it work. I have no critical knowledge about the codebase that makes me feel like I could fix an edge case without reading the source code line by line (which at that point would pro…

> I have no critical knowledge about the codebase that makes me feel like I could fix an edge case without reading the source code line by line (which at that point would probably take longer than 4 hours). Peter Naur argues that programming is fundamentally an activity of theory building, not just program text production. The code itself is merely the artifact of the real work. You must not confuse the artifact (the…

There isn't a whole lot of theory building when you're writing a shell script or a Kubernetes manifest... You're just glad to get the damn thing working.
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