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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#751

Post by Arnt »

eschatology wrote: post #187
Arnt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written a few RFCs. For any RFC, there will be a "comment" after publication from someone who did not take earlier comments seriously enough to read them.

Exactly the attitude described by GP comment Mind boggling

You may be relieved to hear that there's a straightforward process to have an RFC revised. Step 1 of that process, however, is reading the the RFC and the archived email about the RFC.

You can't just arrive after publication, ignore what others said before you, and expect anyone to listen to you.

Re: End of Japanese community

#752

Post by ziml77 »

freedomben wrote: post #565
hitarpetar wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's ton of information that is conveyed by the inflection of voice, demeanor, body language, etc. information which mostly gets scrambled by a phone or video call

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. A video call is obviously better for conveying voice, demeanor, and body language, than is written text in a forum. I absolutely loathe when companies do the "let's jump on a call" thing, but this does seem like a pretty exceptional case where a call would be indeed very helpful. This is also an opportunity for him to get directly in front of people at Mozilla to voice his conc…

Most other commenters here are honestly making me feel crazy for thinking that asking to hop on a call seemed perfectly reasonable. I don't even like calls most of the time, but I do recognize that sometimes they are a better way to communicate than text and this seems like one of those times.

Re: End of Japanese community

#753

Post by musicale »

yreg wrote: post #453
cryptonym wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry you feel like this Nope. Start by apologizing for the impact of what YOU did. Contributor of 20y just quit and provide a clear list of what is wrong. "your feelings" and "your struggles" is not respectful. You should be sorry that YOU pushed changes on them in a way that impacted badly their work and made them quit. Thank them for the feedback and try to open a discussion on finding a positive outcome.

But they might not be sorry. Being sorry about how the bot works implies an intention to change/remove it.

"I'm sorry for how you feel about this" (we won't admit that we harmed you with our bad behavior, and it's probably your fault for feeling pain.)

"your struggles" (it's your fault that you were harmed by our bad behavior.)

"Hop on a call" (we are the boss, you aren't, and your concerns are trivial.)

Re: End of Japanese community

#754

Post by 1shooner »

rurp wrote: post #667
estimator7292 wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's disproportionate at all. Nerds very badly want a viable alternative to Chrome and "Chrome with s paintjob". The only alternative is Firefox, but Mozilla has been a pretty shitty company and very bad stewards of an open web. People are mad at Mozilla and Firefox because they're squandering resources on PR and "optics", shoveling in ads and AI crap instead of focusing development efforts on making Fi…

Yes, this exactly. Firefox became the one good avenue for preventing a Google monopoly over the web and Mozilla just completely fumbled the opportunity again and again. This isn't about one or two screwups, it's been a decade or more of the same problems. It sucks. I absolutely don't want Google to have total control over the web and still want Firefox to succeed, but at this point it's clear they have failed. I stil…

>one good avenue for preventing a Google monopoly over the web

This may be a canard but I was under the impression that Google maintains Mozilla through default search payment in order to have a bare minimum competitor to head off regulation. By that interpretation, dysfunction at Mozilla is preferred if not explicitly part of the plan.

Re: End of Japanese community

#755

Post by [deleted] »

stephenlf wrote: post #525
sirwhinesalot wrote: post #515

I'm not sure why I clicked on this beyond just knowing it was going to be another Mozilla trainwreck and not being able to look away. But what was truly stunning to me was this comment thread. There are people here actually defending the following response: > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us t…

Talking face-to-face is absolutely the right response, though. Would you have preferred a canned apology?

[deleted]

Re: End of Japanese community

#757

Post by DocTomoe »

When you've seen this over and over again, you notice the pattern.

Marsf’s declaration will stand as a warning, yet not a turning point. The Japanese community will fade into quiet dignity, its pages archived and replaced by machine-rendered text that sounds correct but says nothing alive. A few veterans like Michele will remain, mending sentences by candlelight, until exhaustion or disillusion drives them away too.

Within Mozilla, the story will become legend told in conference calls - “remember when the Japanese translators quit over the bot?” Some manager will sigh, another will nod, and the project will move on. In a year, SumoBot will be improved, made less intrusive, and marketed as community-enhanced translation.

What will endure is not the bot or the bureaucracy, but that farewell note - an act of witness that proved people still care enough to walk away.

If Shakespeare wrote the final scene, it would close not on victory or defeat, but on silence: a hall of empty chairs, lit by the blue glow of screens that still translate into nothingness.

Re: End of Japanese community

#758

Post by DocTomoe »

sameerds wrote: post #654

> Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. That has the same vibes as a customer support helpline that has no intention to actually help.

Kiki is a corporate emissary caught between empathy and policy. I believe she genuinely wants reconciliation and understanding (“Would you hop on a call?”) but speaks in the soft dialect of institutional mediation. Her motivation is damage control through dialogue - to rebuild trust without ceding systemic control. She carries the company’s tone of “we’re listening,” but not yet its willingness to yield.

Re: End of Japanese community

#759

Post by iamevn »

danieltanfh95 wrote: post #750
djantje wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lets dismiss Japanese culture..

This isn't dismissing, this is respecting that this is a risk factor in involving Japanese contributors.

Please reread what you wrote and try to see if you can see how it comes off as at least culturally insensitive if not outright racist.
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