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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#752Earlier quoted context omitted.
You may not realize it but Israel is slowly becoming Rhodesia/Apartheid South Africa. And i don't mean the word 'apartheid' as a cudgel. During the Rhodesian Bush War, their forces ran circles around the ZIPRA and ZANLA with multiple battles and encounters where they'd routinely record 500:1 KD ratios like Operation Dingo, etc. They had complete freedom of action to bomb any infrastructure obstructing them, reach dee…
> Cutting off that source of FX would literally half the economy overnight because cash would stop sloshing around internally from its main sources My point is this isn't a realistic threat for Israel. Its exports are highly desirable to too many parties. Technology. Weapons. Energy. There is too much money to be made, too much advantage to be had. Yes, if the war in Gaza continues for another decade, Israel will run…
Historically Israel has been very paranoid about accepting American support.
During the Cold War they played both sides: socialist but democratic.
Even now they can get the Chinese on the line in a minutes notice. I’m pretty sure the Chinese are running one of their ports.
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#753Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. After the October 7 attacks it was critical that Israel re-establish deterrence, not doing so would be inviting more attacks. > Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, which played directly into the dynamics of guerrilla warfare where a strong state's extreme actions ag…
> Despite all this Israel has largely re-established military deterrence in the Middle East and is on a path to normalize relations with countries like Saudi Arabia once Hamas is either forced to surrender or degraded enough that they lose their ability to govern Gaza. Citizens in the Gulf feel very differently on a large number of issues than their leaders.
> Citizens in the Gulf feel very differently on a large number of issues than their leaders.
Yeah, this is a common pattern, in general most Muslim counties have leadership which is far more moderate than their populations overall, with Iran being a notable exception.
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#754Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure where you get "Jews and Muslims have been allies since the start of Islamic history" and then you pivot to hate for Jews 20 years ago. Antisemitism is alive and kicking. Hate to Jews has not been "displaced into Zionist hate". It's just s/Jews/Zionists/ the hate is the same hate. The blood libels are the same blood libels. The stereotypes the same stereotypes. If you are talking about how Jews have been…
That's not true; I have seen many members in the Satmar community here in NYC that join pro palestinian protests, and are met with absolute love. They're spat on by the Israeli side at said protests. I think people here at least separate the two very well and it's not a s/Jews/Zionists/g at all.
This is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are Jews".
So the Satmar anti-Zionist Jews are ok? But the other Jews? Also met with love? Do you love the Jews that have opinions that differ than yours on this conflict? Why do Palestinian protests where I live (Canada) target Synagogues, Jewish owned businesses, Jewish neighborhoods?
Do Zionists control the US? The Media? Not Jews... nono. "Zionists".
I'm not necessarily talking about you specifically. But it is a fact that antisemites use this technique and this is being normalized. Why does it matter than you have a token Jewish person in your protest at all? Who cares if someone in your protest is a Satmar Jew or an Iranian Bhaii?
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#755Earlier quoted context omitted.
International law forbids the occupying power to give voting rights to occupied regions. Its also a bit unclear what you mean by "unambiguously under Israeli control" since Palestinians in occupied palestinian territories aren't unambigiously under Israeli control, they had little control over the inside of Gaza until recently, and have some power in the west bank that is shared with the PA. Neither is "unambiguous c…
I think "if their authorities can kick down the door of the house you were born in" is a good enough guide here to see the problem as distinct from other military interventions, not like the invasion of Iraq was a good idea. The US was not established in Iraq long enough for generations of adults born in Iraq to have grown up under US control. The border between US and Iraq is not like the border between two suburbs,…
> I think "if their authorities can kick down the door of the house you were born in" is a good enough guide here to see the problem as distinct from other military interventions, not like the invasion of Iraq was a good idea.
The US had troops in iraq that were going around kicking in doors. I'm not trying to make any claim as to wether the invasion was a good or bad thing (actually i think it was a bad thing), but it clearly meets your definition of when people should get a vote.
At the same time i think most americans would view the proposition that iraqis should vote in us federal elections absurd.
> The US was not established in Iraq long enough for generations of adults born in Iraq to have grown up under US control.
This is a bit of a goal post move but what time frame do you think is relavent? America invaded iraq in 2003. They left briefly but then came back. They still have a small number of troops there right now. There is a generation of iraqis who have grown up never knowing a time where american troops werent in their country.
> The border between US and Iraq is not like the border between two suburbs, and there were never Iraqis crossing that border daily to drive a taxi or clean someone's house or see a doctor.
I'm not sure the relavence. Most borders in europe are like this, they dont vote in each others elections. I don't think at present this would describe the border situation in Israel/Palestine.
> They had enough control over Gaza before October 7th to deny Gaza a port, an airport, and even the right to do peaceful commercial fishing without getting their boats lit up.
Sure, and that's an argument people use to claim that the territory is under Israeli occupation (or sometimes they argue that would not be enough to start an occupation but its enouth to make the occupation not terminate). I think everyone agrees that Israel exerts significant military control over occupied Palestinian territories. That is why they are called "occupied".
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#756Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. It's not just Palestinians they nee…
> Are you seriously suggesting Israel can just give citizenship/voting rights to all Palestinians and make a group that largely wants their destruction a voting majority? Can you think of any reason why Palestinians might feel this way? Does anything come to mind?
> Can you think of any reason why Palestinians might feel this way?
There are multiple factors, radicalization has long been a major issue in Palestinian schools[0].
[0] https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Schools-in-th...
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#757[flagged]
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#758Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…
> Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response Is it disproportionate? Why do we talk about proportions when it comes to Jewish people defending their security but don’t bring it up in other conflicts? There was no talk of proportionate response after 9/11, for example. Virtually all nations who participated in the global war on terror didn’t care. Proportionality is also not relevant when you’re…
> There was no talk of proportionate response after 9/11
I guess it depends on where you were, but for me in Australia at the time, yes - there was plenty.
Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#759Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized
#760"One day, everyone will have always been against this"