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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#751
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese civilians experienced far worse in WW2, and they forgot pretty quickly. The war against the Tamil Tigers would be another case study. Once the radicalism is dealt with by force, the ratcheting of violence is reduced, and people move on.

Japanese had it bad for 2-3 years. After that they were allowed to live in their country with their own leadership. Palestinians have it bad for 80 years, they are not allowed to return to their homeland, and we expect them to live in closely monitored concentration camps.

A persecuted minority was granted independence from a previously colonial, totalitarian, theocratic state. Since then they have been engaged in an perpetual war of terror.

Japan and Germany had it 'easy' because their defeat was so brutal, and their de-radicalization was so thorough.

Israel's real crime was being too lenient after the 6 days war, exposing themselves and radicalized Palestinians to the violence that's lasted to this day.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#752
post #525

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart. PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list…

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is yet another echo), As I said on X, your own platform (YCombinator) is still full of hateful bigots who would censor/downvote even the mildest form of speaking against the genocide. Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorsh…

> Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorship. It's being abused.

I agree it's hard to talk about anti-establishment issues on corporate owned media, but I feel like HN isn't really putting a thumb on the scale. As my proof, you assumed the comment was being downvoted, but it shows no sign of that (isn't particularly low, not faded at all). Unpopular opinions will obviously do poorly in a popularity contest, but I feel the tide is shifting among those informed on the issues.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read this UNHCR report. All the evidence is just circular references to other bodies who reference each other. The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". That idea was because Israel could name 17% of the casualties in Hamas registers as members of the organization. But assuming that every other casualty is a civilian is quite a stretch. For one th…

Here's an interview with a UNICEF worker who has spent a great deal of time on the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAo2j6aih0 This is not about israel incidentally hitting civilians. It's about the deliberate policy of mass starvation, withholding of water, withholding of medical supplies (incubators, pain killers, the lot), and the placing of the only "allowed" aid-distribution centres (4 out of a previous…

It's a bit of a catch-22.

Sending food wherever, leads to it being captured by Hamas / local militias (for lack of a better word) so you have to distribute where you can protect it.

But of course where you have soldiers is where you'll take fire.

Maybe she cared about your own people, you wouldn't engage in places where humanitarian aid was being distributed

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major genocide I can think of has been precipitated by the actions of the victim group against the oppressor group. Indeed, in many cases, it's explicit that the perpetrators were looking for just such a pretence. The most serious genocide we're all aware of began, indeed, with a terrorist incident ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht ) -- a jewish boy assassinated a german diplomat. This comment also…

The terrorist attack of 2023 had such magnitude that Israel was allowed to do 50 times worse with no immediate punishment, but this pretence is getting old and they're in too deep: I think that the people who think that it's possible for both parties to live in peace are kidding themselves. There is no good solution to this conflict because enemies cannot suddenly become friends. There are only bad "solutions".

>The terrorist attack of 2023 had such magnitude that Israel was allowed to do 50 times worse with no immediate punishment, but this pretence is getting old and they're in too deep

Huh? Israel is literally founded upon "Jewish-Zionist Terrorism" as in "Jewish-Zionist Terrorism And The Establishment Of Israel" - https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

Israel has always been allowed to commit any crime it wants "with no immediate punishment", no sanctions, but maybe a few mean words. Sometimes certain governments would impose a symbolic sanctions on specific individual lunatic settlers as a form of "see we did some thing", but otherwise Israel's history is the history of impunity.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#755
post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So according to that logic, Israel is intentionally orchestrating a "brink of starvation" which generates for it negative publicity but is very careful to ensure nobody actually starves. Why would be the strategy in that according to you?

Because they thought actual famine would be worse. They didn't realize how little the US would care.

I think there's something to the IQ comment I made earlier. If adversary A claims the adversary B is doing a terrible thing, that thing doesn't materialize, the smart money isn't to be like "oh well B is only not doing it because they are sinister."

Or say another way - if "they are evil" whether they do X or opposite of X, whoever is setting up that story for you is full of shit.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

this is a baseless conspiracy. There is an entire report going over the operational failures that allowed oct 7th to happen and it wasnt the idf intentionally standing aside to let it happen. Also friend fire is predicted to be in the single digits and I dont think any has actually been confirmed.

They shot a building with a tank where Hamas was holding hostages, maybe there wasn't a good solution but blowing up their own citizens without trying is pretty bad. And we don't really know the extent of what happened that day as no independent people were allowed and Zaka cleaned it up quickly. Zaka is an ultra orthodox right wing volunteer organisation and its probably who started the false burned babies story. And then we have the Hannibal directive so its not like Israel is not accustomed to killing their own.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#757
post #591
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, will you abstain from voting? There are only 2 parties and they both fund Israel. One maybe slightly less.

Stop this nonsense.

It's hard to understand what you mean. Logically, if you don't want to support Israel, you should vote Dem or abstain as Dems support them slightly less.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok. Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.

Lets address the elephant in the room. First of all, to be fair no one is ok with russia bombing hospitals. It's just that at this stage sanctions have been maxed out.

Now from watching the coverage of this war you can't help but come to the conclusion that there's an organised but invisible movement opposing the war. The various humanitarian bodies and news outlets like al jazeera and bbc all quote each other in a self reinforcing loop of anti israel talk. If it's not an organised conspiracy at least it's a very strong convergence of interests giving the impression of one.

Historically the main opposition to Israel comes from the Arabs with the European countries joining in with various levels of enthusiasm mainly for the pragmatic reason that the Arabs have all the oil.

The anti american block is also anti israel because that goes against US interests.

It's not surprising then that the UN would be completely taken over by anti israel groups. It's basic maths.

But my point is what is the historic motivation for the anti israel movements? It's definitely not out of great sympathy for the palestinians although that's definitely why most Westerners are pro palestinian, but that's just marketing.

I think i've established fairly well it all comes back to the Arabs. And their motivation without a question is genocidal anti semitism. They are just upset the Germans didn't finish off their job and they are taking everyone else along for the ride.

I'm not saying there can be no legitimate opposition to Israel, but it's my belief, backed up by a certain amount of historical evidence that most of the opposition from official sources has its roots in anti semitism.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok. Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.

Lets address the elephant in the room. First of all, to be fair no one is ok with russia bombing hospitals. It's just that at this stage sanctions have been maxed out. Now from watching the coverage of this war you can't help but come to the conclusion that there's an organised but invisible movement opposing the war. The various humanitarian bodies and news outlets like al jazeera and bbc all quote each other in a s…

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