Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah • Hacker News Board

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#751

Post by jalapenos » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:41 AM UTC

cosmicgadget wrote: post #732

loughnane wrote: post #689

The sad irony is that he's at a college campus debating/arguing with people. At their best that's what college campuses are for. I know they haven't been living up to it lately but seeing him gunned down feels like a metaphor. I know he liked to publicize the exchanges where he got the best of someone, and bury the others, and that he was a far, far cry from a public intellectual. Still, he talked to folks about idea…

I read an account of the "debate" immediately preceding his murder, it was quips and dodges. If that's at all representative of his conduct, he actively hurt the national dialogue by convincing people that that's what a debate looks like.

[flagged]

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#752

Post by 8note » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:41 AM UTC

paulvnickerson wrote: post #600

It's not a gun problem that we have in this country. Iryna Zarutska was murdered with a pocket knife. What we have is a spiritual sickness, which cannot be legislated... The only thing I can think of that the government can do is to clamp down hard on violence, including speech which advocates for violence (e.g. glorifying Luigi Mangione, calling everyone a Nazi/fascist, etc.). Freedom of speech ends where it actuall…

there still is a gun problem.

you might have some blind spots yourself though. the biggest set of spiritual sickness and violence are whats happening to immigrants by ICE, and the support americans are giving to israel to do mass horrors to gazan civilians.

theres tons of violence going on thats much more current than talking about luigi or calling somebody who is a fascist a fascist

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#753

Post by guiomie » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:47 AM UTC

[flagged]

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#754

Post by dinkumthinkum » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:51 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #709

loughnane wrote: post #689

The sad irony is that he's at a college campus debating/arguing with people. At their best that's what college campuses are for. I know they haven't been living up to it lately but seeing him gunned down feels like a metaphor. I know he liked to publicize the exchanges where he got the best of someone, and bury the others, and that he was a far, far cry from a public intellectual. Still, he talked to folks about idea…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#755

Post by kashunstva » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:56 AM UTC

sterlind wrote: post #705

pragmatically, you can't kill an idea with bullets. terrorism does one thing only: it triggers retaliation. nihilistic accelerationists who want a war can use terror to provoke one. some of Charlie Kirk's last words: > ATTENDEE: Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? > KIRK: Too many. [Applause] I don't think the shooter was trans. but I'm trans, and I don't see thi…

I vehemently disagree with all that Kirk seemed to advocate for, but agree that this debate, not murder, is the solution.

That said, Kirk, in this exchange was not engaging in debate so much as theatrics. The question that was posed to him was intended to force him to acknowledge that being trans doesn’t seem to be associated with a unique propensity to engage in mass shootings. Instead, he responded in a way that was ideologically motivated. Quite a few people praised Kirk for engaging in debate, but if this is exemplary of his format, not bringing in facts, then I would call it more performative than debate.

Regardless, this is awful; and I hope the repercussions for the trans community aren’t dire.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#756

Post by kaycey2022 » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:58 AM UTC

guiomie wrote: post #753

[flagged]

I'm from India. In the last few months it has become exceedingly clear how much racist disdain people like Charlie Kirk have towards people from my country. But what you just said, is just misguided and off putting, nonsense. This line can be used against anyone and can be used to condemn anyone. People should be punished for what they have done, not for what someone thinks they will do.

By the way, I don't have much faith in free speech but I value being able to see people for who they are.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#757

Post by jalapenos » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:02 AM UTC

CSMastermind wrote: post #485

It has been extremely disheartening to see people celebrating this across other social media platforms.

[flagged]

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#758

Post by kaycey2022 » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:06 AM UTC

quitspamming wrote: post #203

I don't know how a country filled with guns can survive the normalization of calling people you disagree with Nazi, Fascist, etc. We've all been taught since grade school it was a good thing to kill Nazis, even in small percentages there are mentally unstable people who will hear you call someone a Fascist and take the logical step from "it's good to kill nazis" to "they're a nazi so I should kill them". I am both ve…

Isn't the whole point of the MAGA, non woke right, not to tone police people? How are you going to stop people from abusing other who they don't agree with? That is the basics of free speech.

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#759

Post by cryptonector » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:08 AM UTC

8note wrote: post #677

so this is the end of the debate bro culture he pioneered? i dont imagine any other right wing thought leaders are going to want to put themselves at risk of being shot over and over again, now that its happened.

Or maybe they should double down to say "this will not stand".

Re: Charlie Kirk killed at event in Utah

#760

Post by scrubs » Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 5:10 AM UTC

themgt wrote: post #286

But we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond, or go beyond these rather difficult times. My favorite poem, my -- my favorite poet was Aeschylus. And he once wrote: "Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God." What we need in the Uni…

Aeschylus is a great greek poet. For our purposes here I might advocate for Jung (paraphrasing from memory)

In the end there is no going forward in the current context; there are no solutions there. It requires renewed vigor to move to a higher, better frame where growth is possible.

For us americans: political identity (libs v. Trump) has no solutions. Better: the political parties need to serve us. Dead kids or abused kids by adults (Epstein) cannot stand. What can 3.5 std deviations of center left and right get together over? Kids surely. And the knowledge (as Aeschylus narrates well elsewhere with the furies) that violence begets violence surely.