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Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

trial.medpath.com

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Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#751
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people can't be arsed doing that and we give easy shortcuts for everything in life, what's the point in being alive? Embrace the shortcuts. Life's too short not to. What's that Plato quote about writing? If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but…

The truth is that we designed a system in which a majority of people cannot thrive and in which a lot of people end up developing problems like obesity or being labeled as ADHD. Now the same system designed a cure, one that you have to pay for and take for years if not for life, just so that you can rewire your perfectly normal brain to fit in the very imperfect mold of what the system needs Taking antidepressant won…

> The truth is that we designed a system in which a majority of people cannot thrive and in which a lot of people end up developing problems like obesity or being labeled as ADHD.

We designed — if you can call this "design" — a system where most people are not the literal property of their feudal lords and most of them do not need to worry about literally starving to death.

Our genomes don't know we're not at constant risk of starving, they're not universally adapted to abundance. Heck, our genes are barely adapted to milk[0] or cooked food[1].

We don't know if our forebears had ADHD, but this not because they didn't, it's because approximately nobody in psychology wants to diagnose someone who isn't in the room with them — there's plenty of historical figures whose behaviour is compatible with such a diagnosis, which is a much weaker claim. Personally, I am suspicious of evolutionary psychology as being at risk of decorating "just-so" stories with just enough rigour to seem respectable, but even then one does need to make claims that at least add up, such as the ones behind this claim that it may have been an adaptation 50k years back: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brain-curiosities/20...

> The fact that all of these lifestyle disease increased 100 folds in the last 50 years should be a clear sign that the problem isn't the human body/brain, but whatever the fuck we're collectively agreeing to take part in.

Life expectancy over the last 50 years: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy-at-birth-...

Here's ADHD, albeit the chart only goes back 35 years not 50. Biggest increase is (+444% ~=) 5.4x in Qatar, not 100x. "Upper-middle-income countries" was 2%, USA was 30%: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-with-adhd?tab=tabl...

> You could have used the same argument for decades about asbestos, leaded paint, leaded gas, freon, &c. and yet here we are...

Mm. And despite all those errors, where we are is "living longer and healthier lives in greater comfort… unless you're American for some reason, you guys should look at what all the rest of us have been doing and copy us". Even a few of those examples, like asbestos, were direct improvements over the previous status quo of "perhaps my house/factory will burn down with me in it".

[0] lactose tolerance

[1] Our mouths are too small for all the teeth we have, soft food diet does this, cooking makes food softer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_jaw_shrinkage

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#752
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you really missed the point. Of course there are reasons we still get cancer, just like there are reasons people get fat. Evolutionarily people are way more likely to die of being under nourished than over, so the body packs on fat when it can. Evolution did not optimize for 2025 > Some people probably do come at it from the moral angle. But there are good reasons to assume that this time isn't differen…

> It seems like you really missed the point Yeah, I guess I don't really know what your point was if it wasn't to ask why we get cancer. Maybe that's my fault? > A medication may have side effects ... beyond the initially understood ones. Tylenol has been around for a long time. When it first came out, people were probably popping it like candy until they realized the limits, and now it's pretty well understood. And…

People clutched pearls about mRNA vaccines and now the US is ending all funding for them because one of those nutjobs is running HHS, this will cause an untold amount of harm and deaths. The truth matters, but unfortunately not as much as the narrative.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#753
post #208

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every time in recorded human history when there's be a panacea or cure-all it's generally been snake-oil. There are a lot of side effects, of this type of medicine - many which were not really prevalent when it was prescribed on-label.

Antibiotics?

I mean, antibiotic resistance and superbugs are a thing. Overuse of antibiotics has been and still is definitely a problem, and there's a good reason that you're very strongly advised to fully finish whatever dose of antibiotics you're given.

Also broad-spectrum antibiotics can cause havoc to the body. They're amazing of course, don't get me wrong, but far from a panacea and there are issues in their use and overuse, some of which we're still learning about despite it being a century (in only 3 years!) since their initial discovery.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors don’t get paid for writing prescriptions. They don’t get kickbacks for writing prescriptions. A small subset of doctors are paid by pharmaceutical companies to run trials or provide expertise, but you can look that up since it’s publicly available information, and it’s not based on them prescribing you anything. At most a drug rep comes by and brings donuts or something to talk about their new drugs. Source w…

https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/ https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/

Now go drill down into what those payments are for. The vast majority is for running trials. Each payment is tracked, and you can drill down into each one.

If you don’t want a doctor who takes money to run clinical trials, use this database to avoid them. It’s not hard.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't even know what "junk DNA" did until like 25 years ago. We've discovered a couple new body parts in the last 50 years. We don't have any real understanding of how basic, foundational parts of medicine work - things like anesthesia and antidepressants and even pain differences between men and women . Tests are regularly performed on highly homogenous groups, or even tested on groups completely different from…

Jesus I can't tell if this comment is a joke or peak techbro arrogance. I think your mind would break if you tried to learn what goes into modern drug design, like quantum chemistry. Statistical analysis was basically invented to solve problems in psychology and biology, like measuring intelligence and understanding genetic inheritance. Pretty much all the advancement in the computer industry is on the hardware side.…

Oh for sure - I didn't really consider software development because I barely consider it a practice - it literally slipped my mind. I refuse to call it software "engineering" because there's not a single real engineer in the field lol.

edit: I should clarify that I did indeed only mean computer hardware - that shit is incredible, and built by actual engineers. Imagine how incredible software could be if we had real engineers there, too.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors don’t have less liability if they give the patient something they ask for. It’s certainly not enough of an effect that doctors make decisions on what to prescribe based on their malpractice insurance premiums.

Sure they do, it’s why doctors these days prescribe pills versus recommending healthy habits. There are no healthy habit recommendations anymore in many practices due to anti shame culture etc. This is different to other parts of the world with healthier citizens.

Anti-shame culture is not what we’re talking about. What we were talking about was doctors prescribing pills that patients asked for to lower their liability, which is nonsense.

Doctors are humans though and if people repeatedly ask for a specific treatment some percentage of them will offer it. That’s how drug advertising impacts prescriptions. Nothing to do with liability.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a diverse set of opinions on this site. We don't all think the same. Also, there's a distinction you're overlooking. Not trusting big pharma isn't the same thing as not trusting medicine. Big pharma will happily sell us drugs that work - it's the most profitable thing they do. You just can't trust them blindly, which is why regulation is important. In the case of vaccines, they've proven effective over a ver…

Healthy suspicion for the mRNA vaccines was not really accepted, was it?

So, the time to bring up concerns about an appropriately built fire exit is not while you are actively evacuating from the fire. Arguing that there may be dangerous long-term effects for a vaccine makes no sense when the alternative is the spread of a highly contagious and deadly disease. Nobody (who's thinking) gives a shit. The first concern is the disease. Now that we've gotten past covid, discussing whether or not we should use it elsewhere makes plenty of sense.

But of course, mRNA vaccines were being developed long before COVID, so I assume you raised you concerns at that time, and not in the middle of an emergency when nobody has time to explain to every third dumbass that we're going for the lesser harm here - meaning "not dead right now".

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#758
post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m certain IF more closely resembles how humans ate for millions of years, not knowing when our next meal would come before becoming an agrarian society, and we haven’t had much time to evolve since then. So, yeah, dieting is modern, but so is an abundance of food. Both are equally unnatural.

This is literally the argument keto, carnivore, and caveman diet people make. "I feel like this is how we ate 10,000 years ago, so it must be natural and therefore good!" We also didn't get vaccines for most of history. That doesn't mean remaining unvaccinated is good. For the record, keto works for me (including bloodwork to prove it) but is unsustainable. My mind is never sufficient compared to when I'm eating norm…

We didn't have vaccines millions of years ago, so we didn't evolve with them. We've always been eating, so our bodies literally evolved completely around resource acquisition.

Why is this such a complex concept for so many? I literally cannot think of anything simpler.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting calorie intake is easy. Consuming near unlimited calories is even easier and a lot more fun.

I will tell you the secret: resistant fiber supplements. There's other zero-calorie foods too, but they tend to cause intestinal discomfort rather than improve it.

Not that I think it's necessarily appropriate to discuss here, but I've also been of the opinion that fiber is pretty dang necessary for health. It limits calorie uptake, it massively helps shield against sugar uptake, it helps us poop better, etc.

Started having sweetened oatmeal for a midnight snack and already I feel better all over.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also take up resources, continue to decline physically, etc. We know that there is strong selection pressure for things that occur during reproductive years. No one debates this. How much the sort of scenarios you're discussing impact selection pressure is significantly less clear. But it's also a moot point for this discussion - we haven't been in a world where people can get this fat so easily and in such l…

Grandparents are a selective advantage well after reproduction. Older members of the tribe can watch the young while fitter members engage in hunting and foraging. They can also teach the young. Most tribes around the world that still exist you see this pattern.

But for an ancient tribe grandparents means 35-50 years old people. Just as health starts to decline in modern humans.
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