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How to live on $432 a month in America

shagbark.substack.com

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Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#751

Like other people here, I have my quibbles with the exact math. But the general premise is true: yes, you can live in rural poverty for cheap. The problem is the vibes. A hundred years ago, you would have a community, a place in society, and all of your family and friends nearby. In 2025, the only actual local job the author of the piece can come up with is at a gas station. Top ten occupations, 1920: Farmers, farm l…

Not saying I agree with the premise of the article at all but making life decisions based on how much others will respect it is a terrible way to live

I used to be a guy that genuinely didn't care about what others thought. I did my own thing. As they say: those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter. That worked surprisingly well for quite a while. And then I slowly realized the benefits of society. It's nice to be a part of this big human experiment of ours. It's nice to have respect. And the thing is, it doesn't have to cost you that much. You don't have to go full-conformist. If you do a few basic things that are fairly low-effort you get a good bit of leeway in the eyes of the world. I'm still a pretty weird guy; just one that wears a squid on his head less often. Soul still intact.

Coming back to the article topic, often times society's judgment saves people from making stupid decisions. For example, in non-HN circles, "I am going to go move far away from anyone I know to live in a dilapidated building in one of the most depressed towns in the Northeast and work at a gas station" would garner enough judgment to stop that person in their tracks. If you've ever been to a town like this, you realize that is a good thing! Statistically, they've just been saved from ODing on fentanyl! Same thing for all kinds of socially undesirable behaviors. If you think people do crazy shit now, imagine what they'd do without a society around them.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is I mostly agree with the piece, it's very possible to live cheaply when everything goes smoothly and most things are routine. The problem is things very often don't go smoothly, especially once you have a family. For example, my daughter took a small fall on a jungle gym, so small that I didn't even think she really got hurt but she landed really unlucky and broke her arm. We went to urgent care but she…

In New York you could make 5x the amount of money the article is talking about and still qualify for free healthcare.

Woah, I had no idea. This rebuts one of my main concerns from the original article: They did not include healthcare costs. But you are right. A little bit of Googling found this plan: "New York (State) Essential Plan". Details: https://www.nyhealthinsurer.com/new-york-essential-plan/

    > Frequently Asked Questions
    > Who qualifies for the Essential Plan?
    > Residents aged 19–64, living in New York, with incomes 138%–250% FPL (e.g., $21,597–$39,125 for a single adult in 2025), U.S. citizens or eligible immigrants, not on Medicaid or Medicare.
This is pretty wild. I'm not saying the coverage will be amazing, but if you are a "starving artist/writer", this is pretty good. You can buy that little log cabin and work 20 hours a week pumping gas (or working at a supermarket). The rest of the time, you can do your art/writing.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#753

I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…

The lack of a budget for heating in an article that uses the term "American Siberia" is so hilariously out of touch that it makes the rest of the article farcical.

> and as far as heat goes, well, one could either pay a little extra in electric for that — or they could have the Amish deliver their scrap wood from their sawmills to burn in a wood stove, very cheaply.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#754

I think the author is arguing against their own point with the illustration they chose. The very last picture can be found in the Wikipedia page for the Homestead Act and, two jumps later, one can find themselves in the Dutch version of "Sod house" [1] which has this to say: > The living conditions there were miserable. Due to the construction method, the room was difficult to heat, it was damp and teeming with vermi…

I lived in a place purely heated by a wood stove in the Yukon. It was glorious, easily best heat and nicest feel ever. When it was past -40 I’d get up at 1am to put in more wood, otherwise I’d have to spend 30 minutes in the morning lighting it again. Places heated with wood stoves are NOT damp or miserable. I loved it. Working on doing it again.

> Places heated with wood stoves are NOT damp or miserable.

A vaguely well constructed place with a wood stove doesn't have to be damp and miserable. A sod hut is going to be. Imagine a tent except it has grass sod for a roof. It's going to be moist all the time.

Plenty of ye olden construction and heating methods are perfectly fine even today. A sod hut is not one of them.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an example of a place. There are likely many such places all over the USA within a few hours drive of where your friends and family live.

So now you have to have a car? So yes this post is still unrealistic

The comment said about people having to fly in to the nearest airport…

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#756
post #720
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of pocket health insurance 1400 a month? Really? It that’s true, that is criminally ridiculous. Why do people accept that, when even in developing nations basic health care is free, and there are plenty of private choices. Decent health insurance costs about 150-300 a month the world over, except in the USA where it is ten times that for no reason whatsoever besides greed and the fact that healthcare is a basic n…

That's like asking why would anyone buy a Mercedes when they can take the bus for $2. US healthcare is extremely high quality and timely if you can pay for it unlike the crap "free" Canadian "healthcare" I used to have with 12 month wait times for procedures and 50%+ marginal tax rates.

>That's like asking why would anyone buy a Mercedes when they can take the bus for $2

no, its more like, what if you lived in a country where you were forced to buy a mercedes or die of starvation, regardless of your socioeconomic status.

I dont doubt that Canadian healthcare is deeply broken, considering its close proximity to the US system, leading to extreme pressure from perverse incentives.

I have spent the last two decades living in developing nations in Latin America, and I can say I have been very pleasantly surprised.

Where I am right now, The public systems cover 80 percent of what people need at no cost with government hospitals and clinics. Any community >200 people will have a clinic, and any reasonable town of a few thousand will have a hospital. There are government Pharmacies that distribute most common medications for roughly 25% of the standard (very low) pharmacy price.

Alongside this is a thriving system of private pharmacies and "clinics" Often, these are fully equipped hospitals, with trauma centers, cardiac units, the works.

One of the nearby ones, for example, consists of seven towers and many other buildings over several city blocks and includes hundreds of specialist practices, three separate hospitals, two imaging centers, etc. All fully for profit and privately held.

The cost at the clinics is typically about 10% - 20% of US cost, and includes the use of new, state of the art equipment from Siemens, GE Medical, etc.

Very good health insurance coverage for me, a 60 year old man, runs a little under $100usd a month, and covers 90-100 percent, including a reasonable allowance for vision and dental.

This is not a wealthy country, and the general tax rate paid by most people is a 20% sales tax on non-essential items, roughly 20% import tax on luxury goods and personal vehicles, a fairly high fuel tax for road use. There are other taxes for top 1% earners and corporate taxes, but they are not onerous.

The public and private system is thriving, and is becoming a hotspot for healthcare tourism for the USA and Canada.

Naked Greed is not the only way forward, and private / public hybrid systems can thrive side by side.

Its worth mentioning that the government provided insurance, typically extended mostly to mothers and children, is also pretty good, covering 100 percent, but each usage requires an approval process that may take several days. Anything else, you go to the hospital where they will provide primary care / stabilization if it is a complex situation requiring ongoing care.

On the government side, there is a clear priority towards care that can result in good outcomes. Pallitive care and diseases that inevitably result in near-term death are deprioritised under the public systems, and private insurance or families pick up the tab on those kinds of things.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying I agree with the premise of the article at all but making life decisions based on how much others will respect it is a terrible way to live

I used to be a guy that genuinely didn't care about what others thought. I did my own thing. As they say: those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter. That worked surprisingly well for quite a while. And then I slowly realized the benefits of society. It's nice to be a part of this big human experiment of ours. It's nice to have respect. And the thing is, it doesn't have to cost you that much. You do…

> would garner enough judgment to stop that person in their tracks

I don't agree the judgement itself should be the factor that stops them. Having that as an overly strong measuring stick is incredibly limiting. It's an indicator of something, sure.. but you should look for actual reasons and where it's coming from

If you ask "everyone seems to think this is a terrible idea.. why?". Well in the 'dilapidated building in a depressed town' case you'd pretty quickly find 100 reasons not to do it, as you pointed out. In a lot of other situations though there are none. Everyone is just following everyone else and no-ones truly considered the alternatives on their own merit

I'm with you that there's a good balance. I don't see a reason in being actively non-conformist or anything. There's an innate drawback to not conforming.. it makes you a little weird and un-relatable. Just need to make sure the benefits make up for it

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#758
post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excluding the possible exception of healthcare I’m not sure what you mean. The hypothetical person is paying property taxes on the house they own. He’s paying income tax on his income. He’s paying sales tax on the food and necessities he buys. I live in state with no income tax. If I decide to live in a cheap house, eat cheaply, and save most of my income does that mean I’m a burden on my community because I’m not pa…

While they are paying all required taxes, and he’s maybe even doing positive things as you describe, the “community” (federal, state, and local levels) is investing more money into him than he is returning to the system. That in itself is a simple fact that you can verify with basic publicly available government budget/taxation statistics numbers. It only really works out okay because not everyone is doing what the a…

>That in itself is a simple fact that you can verify with basic publicly available government budget/taxation statistics numbers.

There's a few problems here. Yes if you take total government expenditures per capita, he's not paying that much in taxes directly. But most of those costs are fixed. If a new person pops up in the US, it doesn't actually cost the federal government an extra $20k a year.

Over a century ago we decided that the more money you make the greater proportion of our total fixed costs you have to pay. There are various justifications for this, the more wealth you have the more you benefit from those government services, diminishing marginal unity of money etc...

But the point is if you're just going to look at total per capita expenditures, looking just at the federal level for simplicity, you need to make around $100k a year before your federal taxes exceed that.

By your argument anyone not making $100k a year is consuming more public money than they are returning and are thus a burden on society.

Your premise logically leads to that absurd conclusion. Obviously the rest of society is necessary in order for the people who do make $100k a year to exist. By your logic someone who lives on $5k a year but who writes open source software for free that some company uses to make $100 million dollar a year is a burden on society.

Someone who creates art that inspires millions of people, or someone who makes articles, games, or videos that provide millions of hours of entertainment, is a burden on society if they give away their work instead of sell it.

My mom was a burden on society because she raised children instead of working outside the home--even though she now has 3 adult children paying hundreds of thousands in taxes per year.

>It only really works out okay because not everyone is doing what the author does.

That's true of nearly every lifestyle you could recommend. Or hell even every piece of good financial advice.

Having 6 months of savings is almost universally considered sound financial advice. But if right now every consumer in America cut all of their discretionary spending to build up a 6 month cushion, it would completely destroy the economy.

That doesn't mean that it's not a valid recommendation for a financial advisor to make.

The author isn't recommending that everyone in America live this way, he's saying that if you can learn to live without all the things you think you need, this is an alternative. If you are the type of person who can't stand the idea of working a 9-5 for 40 years, this is something you can do.

Most people will never do this, but just the fact that it's available as a relief valve is I pretty amazing I think.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#759
post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you equate a good time with spending money it is always going to cost money. I do almost nothing with my time that cost money, I have a lot of perks paid by work that I do not use because I just see no use for them.

> If you equate a good time with spending money it is always going to cost money I'm not equaling anything with anything. I'm pointing out the reality to people claiming that "oh it's so easy to maintain any kind of hobbies and/or social life without spending a penny" > I do almost nothing with my time that cost money Oh, I'm sure you do plenty, you just don't assume there are expenses in what you do. I'm not claimin…

> "oh it's so easy to ...

That I agree with it is only easy for me because I do not have to care if I spend too much. It is easy to make the choice though, doing it effectively is of course hard. I do believe this article is pretty bad, but you can build a life along those lines if you want to.

I think the hardest is living cheap is when you do not have any money

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#760
post #270

I've commented (probably too much) to argue with the harshest critics of this piece, but I am surprised to not have seen much this criticism which is my main one: Supposing I've made peace with the main gist of this: Cut living expenses to a point where you can work ¼ or so of the time most of us spend working by living somewhere cheap and not being so materialistic. The missing piece here is social connections. Fami…

The author argued that the American Dream that the "boomers" had access to is still available, and I believe that American Dream did mean having to uproot, much like the settlers before them.

Perhaps you feel like this needs to be called out more explicitly rather than just hinted at. I think another concern that the author doesn't _highlight_ but is plenty clear is that this sort of lifestyle probably is more amenable to the able bodied, with their frequent allusions to hunting and fishing.

So while the author doesn't explicitly list out all possible issues, and everyone will have different priorities and opportunities in their life, I think the author is plenty clear on what they're describing, and the concern you raised is easily inferred from what they're saying.

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