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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

fastcompany.com

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#751

Post by JasserInicide »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #523
hermannj314 wrote: post #522

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

You're using a highly regulated piece of equipment that kills over 40,000 people in America annually. What do you feel is the appropriate balance? How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on?

How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on?

Are you serious? I can choose to leave my mobile phone home if I want to. I can't do that with my car.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#752

Post by ryao »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #611
ryao wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you apply the same logic to backdoors in encryption? I am sure you could say no one is proposing implementing and using back doors on the general public as a whole, as they would only be for criminal elements. The reason that people oppose this is because the shift from only affecting criminal elements to affecting everyone is so easy to do that nothing would stop it once the infrastructure is in place.

It is extremely difficult to have a backdoor for encryption that only applies to some people, and no proposal for encryption backdoors AFAICT differentiate based on whether the subject has previously committed a crime. They are always blanket backdoors.

There is no difference between applying this to only criminals and applying it to everyone else. Vehicles are already being made with software speed limiters that users can control (e.g. Tesla vehicles). Once the state controls these, there is no technical barrier preventing it from only being applied to criminals.

The only real difference is that old vehicles need to be retrofitted, while the hardware and software needed to do this is largely already present in new vehicles (or soon will be in the remaining exceptions on the market).

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#753

Post by bluecalm »

Gareth321 wrote: post #625
GuB-42 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is that, but in this case it is not particularly authoritarian. - There is already a whole lot of regulations on what makes a car street legal, including rules that can be quite unpopular among drivers and yet important on a large scale. In particular those related to the environment. - Limiting the top speed of cars does not imply surveillance or advanced GPS-based systems. The idea is just to make it so that…

I think you're logically correct. It's the feeling such a policy elicits which makes it untenable. I agree with your points conceptually, but the moment I would have to install a government speed limiter on my car is the moment I vote for someone else. It feels invasive, and I don't like feeling like the paternal hand of the government is all the way up my ass, controlling my gas pedal.

It's not about being paternalistic. It's about protecting others, not you.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#754

Post by 1970-01-01 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #217
1970-01-01 wrote: post #176

Another half-measure that will be disabled by aftermarket kits. If people want to go fast, they will.

This is like, "lock your doors? Nah bro, it's entirely possible to get through any lock, therefore locking is pointless." Most of these people are just generally reckless, they're not really intent on Going Fast No Matter What. Sure, people who actually modify their cars to race around will probably go around this kind of safety measure, but even most people speeding aren't that.

>Most of these people are just generally reckless

That is not a good take if you include the fact that reckless driving in Virginia is already the lowest bar in the United States. 86 MPH is a criminal act. If you are caught doing 86 MPH you are literally put in handcuffs and go to jail.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#755

Post by JasserInicide »

beardicus wrote: post #495

lots of "freedom"-loving pushback on this law here. sorry y'all, we live in a society and your actions affect others. you choosing to endanger my life on the road does not make me more free. i think these speeders should just lose their license to drive forever, so maybe choose to view this law as a compassionate compromise.

This is 100% a political issue. Instead of introducing privacy-violating software, we could instead institute massive policing campaigns to curb speeding. But that would require actual effort by police, something they don't want to do.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#756

Post by shkkmo »

Aurornis wrote: post #715
topherPedersen wrote: post #703

Thank God. People on the roads are extremely reckless and we don't do anything about it. Our highways are lawless for the most part. People can drive however they feel like it. You literally have to kill someone AND be drunk before you actually get in trouble and are locked up. If you kill someone sober though, it's totally fine under our current system. In my opinion, if you get caught driving recklessly, the punish…

> In my opinion, if you get caught driving recklessly, the punishment should be that you're banned from operating 4 wheel vehicles, This sounds good if you imagine perfect enforcement, but reckless driving can be a very subjective charge depending on the location. Driving scooters to work is impossible in many places due to distance or weather. Making everyone’s livelihood hinge upon one officer on a power trip givin…

Tickets can be disputed and many people make a livelihood without a vehicle.

I think current penalties for reckless driving are far too lenient. Driving is not a right, but a privilege. If someone chooses to use that privilege irresponsibly, they should lose that privilege.

Personally, I would advocate for a license revocal process that happens much quicker than what we do now and provides a mechanism for regaining access to that privilege through a rigorous process of eduction and community service.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#757

Post by potato3732842 »

nkrisc wrote: post #496
davemp wrote: post #493

The US has really poor highway policy that encourages speeding. Many highways have a speed limit of 55mph (89kmh) left over from some ancient oil rationing law. [0] So folks are conditioned to think that speed limits are stupid, because frankly many of them are here. I regularly drive on highways that would be 120kmh (75mph) in Europe but are instead 89kmh. Most traffic ends up going 70-75mph (including traffic enfor…

Enforcement should focus on the speed outliers, less on the posted limit itself. If the speed limit is 65mph, but all traffic is moving at 75mph, then I'm going to drive at 75mph. The most dangerous drivers I've seen are those going 30mph or more faster or slower than the rest of traffic. Yes, the problem is that then makes enforcement subjective and that itself can lead to abuses. But it's a sensible approach in the…

> Though I wish they'd at least give warnings to the people going dangerously slow as well.

Same. A little "ma'am, I'm not asking you to floor it, but at least try and do a little better than a loaded garbage truck" would go a long way.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#758

Post by cgriswald »

xandrius wrote: post #687
afavour wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this model is that in a lot of places (especially in the US) public transit isn't a viable alternative to owning a car. So if your ability to drive gets taken away a lot of people just end up driving illegally. It's either that or lose your job, income and possibly home etc etc. IMO a forced maximum vehicle speed is a useful middle ground option.

More people (and not just the poorer) needing to use the public transport will definitely have a positive impact on how much money it gets. And if it is being more strict with people who break driving laws, I don't see why that shouldn't happen.

“Why should my tax dollars go to criminals who lost their driving privileges?”

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#759

Post by matheusmoreira »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #711
kube-system wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think, but that is largely not the way that political winds are blowing. There are very high rates of people who are driving vehicles illegally in states that consistently vote against public transit projects. This is because there is a perception among many of lower socioeconomic status that "spending more will raise my taxes, and I already can't afford car insurance", and that public transit projects will not…

>there is a perception among many of lower socioeconomic status I don't think this is it at all. In the US we don't enforce social norms. The public transit experience in the US is dominated by an extreme antisocial minority ("crazy" bums, drug users, bluetooth speakers, etc). This is the true killer of public transit in America.

It's the killer of public transit everywhere. The ability to avoid such people is a huge benefit of individual transportation. Nobody sane wants to be subjected to stuff like that. Anyone saying otherwise is virtue signalling.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#760

Post by jollyllama »

snowwrestler wrote: post #551

The Fast Company article says “Republicans in Virginia just passed a law to make it a punishment for repeated traffic violations.” But the Virginia legislature is currently controlled by the Democrats. And the delegate quoted in this local news story is a Democrat: https://wjla.com/news/local/anti-speeding-device-car-reckles... That story is probably more useful than the Fast Company one. It clarifies that the new la…

> It does not require manufacturers to pre-install them, and it does not use the electronics built into the car. It sounds analogous to the breathalyzer devices that are an option for judges in some jurisdictions.

There's already a law on the books requiring breathalyzers in all new cars by next year: https://live959.com/law-mandates-mass-cars-to-have-breathaly...

Presumably, anti-speeding tech will be made mandatory by the same incremental approach in time.

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