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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#751

Post by DontchaKnowit »

sham1 wrote: post #431
milesrout wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions! These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't…

Counterpoint, they do. What public elementary school has copies of the bible? Schools are terrified of anything re ligious.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#752

Post by rsynnott »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #579
relatedtitle wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Bible's ok...

When our book says "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses," it's ok. When yours say it, it's not. Simple. 1. https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm

Some of these translations, I feel, slightly miss the point.

Or just went totally off the rails in a couple of cases.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#753

Post by unethical_ban »

zmgsabst wrote: post #334
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I agree - I'm pretty surprised at how nakedly transparent the whole thing has been. One basic example - I thought pretty much everyone agreed that at least some level of due process is just inherent to the rights of everyone in the US. When I hear administration figures arguing that flying the Venezuelans to El Salvadoran prisons is a good thing because "they're really bad dudes", I think "OK, and we'…

Of course. This is what happens when “rule of law” is subverted on the generational scale — eg, by enabling illicit mass migration opposed by the majority of the people. They eventually feel that appeals to “rule of law” are merely emotional manipulation used against them and stop caring in pursuit of a solution to what they perceive as a problem. What did people expect to happen?

Do people really think imperfect enforcement of immigration law is an excuse to willfully discard the right to trial or constraints on presidential power?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#754

Post by sham1 »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #751
sham1 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions! These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't…

Counterpoint, they do. What public elementary school has copies of the bible? Schools are terrified of anything re ligious.

Well apparently at least public school libraries in Utah's Davis County[0]. To their credit, they did actually ban it due to vulgarity and violence, so at least they were principled in that sense, but then the book was brought back due to backlash.

[0]: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/utah-davis-school-dist...>

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#755

Post by navane »

acidmath wrote: post #594
spiderfarmer wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Books with rainbows are getting banned under the same policy. Rainbows!

Where is this happening? URL?

First hit when googling "Books with rainbows are getting banned"

https://www.salon.com/2022/04/15/ohio-school-district-bans-c...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#756

Post by unethical_ban »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #621
wrs wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system. It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible t…

Is your argument that when a political party hold all major branches of government that it is implicitly corrupt? Or are you arguing that one side is corrupt and the other is not? Is there a theoretical situation where a single party gaining control is simply the will of the voters? That appears to be a potential valid outcome.

The argument is that when a corrupt party against all the levers of power, there is little to stop it from doing whatever it wants. The American government is built on some assumptions about keeping nakedly corrupt, amoral authoritarians away from power.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#757

Post by DangitBobby »

kopirgan wrote: post #686
DangitBobby wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What information did they reveal that was sensitive? The strikes had already taken place and so nothing they shared had any strategic value after the fact, other than to confirm the validity. To be clear it is utterly fucking insane (borderline "Russian bot" talking point) that you are entertaining this line of reasoning and I feel dirty for even engaging you.

Ha the "Russian talking point" weapon! Never failed. Anyone that doesnt repeat what the ecosystem wants is Russian agent. Kind of defeats the argument that content of messages will set back relations, affect future intelligence collection etc we kept hearing endlessly?! Make up your mind. It's either important or not.

It's more like anyone who wants to dismantle the free press is a Russian agent in this case. Not really moved by your protest.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#758

Post by djrj477dhsnv »

russdill wrote: post #642
djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which cases ended in some kind of enforcement? By design there's not going to be a direct link to a refusal and the retaliation. For example, the government has a lot of discretion with something like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Trade_Commission_v._... . You don't want to be fighting an antitrust lawsuit against an administration that has a personal vendetta against you.

There's actually a wide range of case law covering such communications in light of such perceived possibility of legal threat. A lot of it culminated in Murthy v. Missouri. What you are suggesting is that the government cannot communicate anything of substance. If say an administration was against advertising medications and publicly said so, this could be viewed as coercing networks to not air such ads for fear of b…

Sorry but I don't follow. You're just saying that it doesn't matter legally, right? I'm not familiar with the law, but that makes sense that it would only be deemed illegal if one can show proof of retaliation.

But in practice it surely can happen that a government can try to bankrupt your company without any visible evidence of retaliation. And while you'll have no legal recourse, it obviously matters to you very much.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#759

Post by [deleted] »

outside1234 wrote: post #283
ta8645 wrote: post #275

It's been under attack a lot longer than the current administration. "free-speech does not mean freedom from consequences", "free speech does not apply to hate-speech", "we must suppress and limit the spread of misinformation", It really seems that people do not believe in free speech anymore, and only appeal to it as a principle to defend themselves, never to defend those they disagree with.

Don’t both-sides this. 99% of the attacks have been under the Trump administration.

[deleted]

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#760

Post by unethical_ban »

greenie_beans wrote: post #736
mbs159 wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has repeatedly suggested that he will use the military on the "enemy from within". Protests could end up looking like what we see in Belarus and Russia - masked "police" shows up and they beat them up and / or take them away.

and that makes you scared? you are playing into his hand if so. that makes me want to go to the streets even more.

They didn't use the term scared, and being scared is not implicitly "going into hiding".

It's because I'm scared that I'm going to protest on April 5 in my state capital.

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