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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#751

Post by hilbert42 »

impossiblefork wrote: post #658
hilbert42 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Here in Sweden we decided against fluoride for this reason and the fact that it is in fact toxic." All water collected from natural sources contains some level of fluoride and other salts (which varies greatly from place to place). Does then your local water authority remove these naturally-acquired chemicals?

Generally not, but we choose where we take our from water from. If there's too much fluoride in the rock water we take soil or surface water instead, for example. If there's too much fluoride in the water we do not supply it to people's taps, but this is for values like 4 mg/L. So we mostly don't take any measures. In Stockholm it's apparently less than 0.2 mg/L though.

Is 0.2 mg/L the upper limit in Stockholm?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#752

Post by permo-w »

kllrnohj wrote: post #726
permo-w wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're really genuinely shocked that people would get worked up over chemicals being added to their drinking water without their consent? chemicals which have not been conclusively proven to be non-toxic? chemicals which are already in toothpaste giving people the choice to use them anyway?

flouride naturally occurs in water all over the world, and if you don't want any chemicals in your water you should be drinking distilled water. Almost nobody does, because "chemicals in the water reeeeeee!!!" is just a mindless idiotic shreak, not anything insightful or debatable

>"chemicals in the water reeeeeee!!!"

having to resort to childish attempts like this essentially invalidates anything "insightful" you might want to say. if you can't see that manually adding safety-unproven chemicals to water without people's consent is a weird and unethical thing to do, then that's fine, but don't embarrass yourself and everyone else like this

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#753

Post by Muromec »

drakonka wrote: post #706
jongjong wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fluoride in the drinking water concentrations is proven safe and it doesn't affect brains. We can never be sure who funded the studies and whether or not the results can be trusted. Studies have shown that studies cannot be trusted. I err on the side of caution. You're welcome to put it in your own drinking water if you trust the studies. > What needs to stop happening is people ignoring objective reality just beca…

> We can never be sure who funded the studies and whether or not the results can be trusted. Studies have shown that studies cannot be trusted. I err on the side of caution. What does this mean for you in practice? Do you see just fluoride studies this way, or "studies" in general? If the former, what makes those different? If the latter, what is your stance on science-backed decision-making and policymaking in gener…

Just listen to the dear leader, they use common sense and need no science to see obvious

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#754

Post by _ZeD_ »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

> Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it.

> If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free.

or, you know, you could avoid the problem in the first place and allow "even poors" to go somewhere or buy something... at least base items, and medicines...

this way they could afford dental costs, and you could spare the need to add fluoride in the water

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#755

Post by cpursley »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

The issue is not the fluoride in the water, it's all the sugar that poor people eat and drink (especially sodas). And we actively fund the corn syrup industry at both ends via the farm bill (production and consumption via SNAP).

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#756

Post by shlant »

naasking wrote: post #687
culi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IQ link is very heavily lacking in evidence. In the actual research the main "risk" posed by flouridated water is actually fluorosis. This causes minerals in your enamel to be replaced with flouride which can cause them to be brittle in the long term. It's pretty uncommon but the thought is that now that flouride toothpaste are commonplace, the benefit of flouridated water is also way less. Which changes the calc…

> The IQ link is very heavily lacking in evidence. Not really: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...

your study has been heavily criticized where you already posted it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43523900

I can only assume once you see those very valid criticisms, you will update your references

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#757

Post by Muromec »

hilbert42 wrote: post #688
hayst4ck wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth and even the idea that there is objective truth is a fundamentally political concept. Authoritarians are opposed to the idea of objective truth because objective truth gives a person a foundation on which to criticize and dissent from those in power. Truth is threatening to authoritarians. Truth is an alternative source of legitimacy. We are experiencing an assault on objective truth in the US in order to get s…

"The problem is science challenges those who derive power from means other than reason." There's been a fundamental shift away from science in the last fifty years or so. Some is understandable—chemical pollution, etc. which is unreasonably blamed on science instead of industry's bad behavior—but there's another thread running here and it's an anti-establishment one. The question I can't fully put a measure on is why…

It's pretty easy actually. Rejecting the mandate gives people political platform. If the issue at hand isnt directly affecting you in the meaningfull way, it works like a charm every single time.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#758

Post by scarface_74 »

abrookewood wrote: post #615
zouhair wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an FYI, water is also toxic.

Yes, I was going to mention this. Had a friend who went down the coast for a day trip with a bunch of mates. On the way back on the train (1.5 hour ride) they had a competition to see who could drink the most water and most of them had several litres, a few of them managed a bit more. My mate also had a bunch of chips/snacks, but not everyone did. Later that night, he got a desperate phone from his friends mum, screa…

Three DJs and 7 other employees got fired for running a contest where whoever could hold their pee for the longest after drinking too much water would win a prize and someone died.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16660273

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#759

Post by no_wizard »

hilbert42 wrote: post #688
hayst4ck wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth and even the idea that there is objective truth is a fundamentally political concept. Authoritarians are opposed to the idea of objective truth because objective truth gives a person a foundation on which to criticize and dissent from those in power. Truth is threatening to authoritarians. Truth is an alternative source of legitimacy. We are experiencing an assault on objective truth in the US in order to get s…

"The problem is science challenges those who derive power from means other than reason." There's been a fundamental shift away from science in the last fifty years or so. Some is understandable—chemical pollution, etc. which is unreasonably blamed on science instead of industry's bad behavior—but there's another thread running here and it's an anti-establishment one. The question I can't fully put a measure on is why…

Not to stir the pot even more however when a vaccine does go bad, it goes really bad

The narrative around vaccines has been completely strong armed in different ways by both sides. Which has left legitimate cases of bad reactions to be largely ignored, underreported and/or not believed, and carries a negative stigma.

My wife has had a medically verified bad reaction to vaccine it was extremely severe. It took multiple doctors before it was recognized and by that point she progressed to having permanent disability

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#760

Post by shlant »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #124
crazygringo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? There's literally tons of evidence. Do you think fluoride doesn't actually reduce cavities?

[flagged]

you're just lying

https://www.cdc.gov/oral-health/data-research/facts-stats/fa...

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