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Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

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Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#751

Post by sureIy »

kbolino wrote: post #727
madeofpalk wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you disable ADP, your local encryption keys are uploaded to Apple's servers to be read by them. Apple could just lock you out of iCloud until you do this.

The hardware will not allow this, at least not without modifications. The encryption keys are not exportable from the Secure Enclave, not even to Apple's own servers.

Are you gonna unlock that phone anytime soon?

Thanks for opening the enclave, don't mind if I ship these keys back home.

No notification needed, Apple has root access.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#752

Post by sureIy »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #576
mtrovo wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is in a really tough position. I don't know if there's any way they could fulfil the original request without it effectively becoming a backdoor. Disabling E2E for the UK market is just kicking the can down the road. Even simply developing a tool to coerce users out of E2E without their explicit consent to comply with local laws could be abused in the future to obtain E2E messages with a warrant on different co…

> Apple is in a really tough position. You mean Apple is in a unique position to make a statement. No more Apple products in the UK. Mic drop. Exit stage left.

But… money

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#753

Post by walthamstow »

gerdesj wrote: post #680
ljm wrote: post #358

Fundamentally, I think the issue is more about technical literacy amongst the political establishment who consistently rely on the fallacy that having nothing to hide means you have nothing to fear. Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties. On the authoritarianism: these laws are always worded in such a way that they can be applied or targeted va…

"Especially in the UK which operates as a paternalistic state and enjoys authoritarian support across all parties." What is a "paternalistic state". I studied Latin so obviously I understand pater == father but what is a father-like state? What on earth is: "authoritarian support across all parties". The UK has one Parliament, four Executives (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales) and a Monarch (he's actually q…

Paternalism, unless I'm mistaken, is a belief among those in power that they what's best for you, better than you do, and will exercise power on your behalf in that manner. Just like your parents do when you're a child.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#754

Post by donbox »

throwaway106382 wrote: post #625
anoncow wrote: post #506

>Online privacy expert Caro Robson said she believed it was "unprecedented" for a company "simply to withdraw a product rather than cooperate with a government. That is such a self serving comment. If Apple provides UK a backdoor, it weakens all users globally. With this they are following the local law and the country deserves what the rulers of the country want. These experts are a bit much. In the next paragraph t…

>"It would be a very, very worrying precedent if other communications operators felt they simply could withdraw products and not be held accountable by governments," This would actually be a very very very very VERY GOOD precedent if you ask me. Facebook pulled something similar when Canada passed the Online News Act and instead of extorting facebook to pay the media companies for providing a service to them (complet…

I love their products: whatsapp and facebook

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#755

Post by dumbledoren »

coaksford wrote: post #557
troupo wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Literally doing the opposite" would be keeping encryption on. Removing encryption for everyone is literally doing the opposite of making a stand

They had two paths to comply with the law. Silently backdoor the worldwide cloud serving every Apple device, or loudly tell people in the UK they don't get to have security because their government prohibits them. Between these two options, this is clearly "making a stand". It's not as much "making a stand" as telling a major government that you have substantial seizable assets under their jurisdiction who is a major…

> tell people in the UK

This doesn't affect only people in the UK. It allows access to all Apple users' data globally:

> No Heathrow connection necessary. “The law has extraterritorial powers, meaning UK law enforcement would have been able to access the encrypted iCloud data of Apple customers anywhere in the world, including in the US” [1].

> https://www.ft.com/content/bc20274f-f352-457c-8f86-32c6d4df8...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43132160

So they can spy on you regardless of where you live even in violation of your own country's privacy laws.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#756

Post by bustling-noose »

bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

You have no laws when traveling through immigration. Thats true in US too. There was an article (trying to look for it could be arstechnica verge I dont remember where) once where a US citizen journalist was detained at the border for hours while traveling into the US and questioned. You can be in the immigration for hours or even decades until you give out what they demand which can involve your unlocked phone and password. There are no laws protecting you.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#757

Post by smsm42 »

cryptonector wrote: post #598
smsm42 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not literacy. They don't care. They need control, and if establishing control means increased risks for you, it's not something they see as a negative factor. It's your problem, not theirs.

They don't even need control. They want control. Why? Either they're idiots who think they need control or they are tyrants who know they'll need control later on when they start doing seriously tyrannical things.

It's natural for the government to want control. It's literally what it is optimized for - control. More control is always better than less control. More data about subjects always better than less data. What if they do something that we don't want them doing and we don't know? It's scary. We need more control.

> they'll need control later on when they start doing seriously tyrannical things.

You mean like when they start jailing people for social media posts? Or when they are going to ban kitchen knives? Or when they're going to hide a massive gang rape scandal because it makes them look bad? Or when they would convict 900+ people on false charges of fraud because they couldn't admit their computer system was broken? Come on, we all know this is not possible.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#759

Post by foota »

nomel wrote: post #619
marcprux wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you think Google didn't already sign up to this? My understanding is that Android's Google Drive backup has had an E2E encryption option for many years (they blogged about it at https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/google-and-android-h... ), and that the key is only stored locally in the Titan Security Module. If they are complying with the IPA, wouldn't that mean that they must build a mechanism into Android to…

My assumption is that Google has keys to everything in its kingdom [1]. [1] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

That's a bit silly seeing as e.g., https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/20/291959446...

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#760

Post by bustling-noose »

maeil wrote: post #741
kimixa wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US claims the same https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act Lots of Americans in this thread seem to be talking down to other countries laws while being completely unaware of their own

Spot on, 727 comments, most probably by Americans, and only 2 (including yours) bringing up the CLOUD Act, the much worse US equivalent. Incredible ignorance.

Providing encrypted data and not providing encryption are two different things. The CLOUD act requires you to hand over data. It could be encrypted. The UK government is asking to hand over data that is also not encrypted. The two are not the same. Note : Not American.
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