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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#751

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

aunty_helen wrote: post #357
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

Because they are ruthless crazy murderers? Because they want to turn us into radioactive ash (basically every day on Russian state TV)?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#752

Post by globular-toast »

varispeed wrote: post #368
negus wrote: post #174

Not surprised, considering UK's ridiculous key disclosure law (United Kingdom The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007, requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order.) that makes anyone with high-entropy random data (which is undistinguishable from the crypto-…

It seems like perfect case to make multi-container encryption as default. That is different data will be revealed using different key and there is no way of knowing how many containers there are in the blob of data and not possible to prove someone is hiding a key.

You could try but you might find it/you get "disappeared" like Truecrypt.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#753

Post by switch007 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

The USA strongarming us after 9/11 didn't help. You don't have to look beyond the borders of the US to answer "what's up with the UK" when it comes to eg terrorism legislation

But yes historically we have been pretty brutal. Look up history the past 600 years. We didn't get a huge empire by asking nicely for their land and resources

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#754

Post by Chance-Device »

bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

I think it’s a cultural issue. The British have an inflated sense of national self worth as a result of being the world’s largest power during the British empire. While this has not been the case for some time now (since Suez in 1948? Longer?) the people still carry the memory and national myth of great importance. This is likely what drives a sense of entitlement that British demands should bypass the laws of every other country in the world and give them unfettered access to everyone’s data. Think about that, literally everyone who has an Apple device!

Frankly, the arrogance is appalling.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#755

Post by throwaway48476 »

jsisto wrote: post #675
RobotToaster wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that one of the ways the five eyes get around domestic spying laws is to spy on each other's citizens. So the CIA spy on British citizens the UK government want to spy on, and GCHQ spy on American citizens the US government want to spy on. So this would indirectly allow the US government to spy on US citizens (even more than it already does, anyway)

Its data laundering

Jurisdiction arbitrage

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#756

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

They broke Enigma code, and since then their spy agencies have overweight influence?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#757

Post by throwaway48476 »

aunty_helen wrote: post #357
TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

DPRUK

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#758

Post by throwaway48476 »

gessha wrote: post #713
convolvatron wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this isn't apple weighing ethics against revenue. this is apple being forced to decide how much their pro-privacy marketing is really getting them in the market.

Given that privacy is why my friends and I have iPhones, Apple will lose a lot of users and developers if they go back on privacy in any way.

Apple doesn't give their Chinese customers any privacy.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#759

Post by throwaway48476 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

They wanted to execute Thomas Paine so I'd say about then

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#760

Post by MrScruff »

xp84 wrote: post #667
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Apple just stops operating in the UK? They could start selling "English language" iPhones in France, let people go on a day trip if they wanted to buy them. There are ways of sidestepping this bullshit if you're an international company. Supposing they have any integrity, I mean. How far will the UK double down?

I still don’t think the UK is a big enough market for Apple to be that worried about the following, but if the government and Apple escalate to the point of Apple pulling out of the UK, it would be pretty easy for the government to force all of its telecoms to ban any new iPhones from their mobile networks. So the citizens will probably not get to simply walk right around the restrictions that way, assuming the gover…

Given the desperation for economic growth in the UK, the idea that they would inflict such a massive bit of self harm on themselves over increased spying options is frankly ludicrous.
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