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DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

arxiv.org

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Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#751

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

spamizbad wrote: post #470
999900000999 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not a uniquely Chinese problem. You had American models generating ethnically diverse founding fathers when asked to draw them. China is doing America better than we are. Do we really think 300 million people, in a nation that's rapidly becoming anti science and for lack of a better term "pridefully stupid" can keep up. When compared to over a billion people who are making significant progress every day. Am…

> You had American models generating ethnically diverse founding fathers when asked to draw them. This was all done with a lazy prompt modifying kluge and was never baked into any of the models.

It used to be baked into Google search, but they seem to have mostly fixed it sometime in the last year. It used to be that "black couple" would return pictures of black couples, but "white couple" would return largely pictures of mixed-race couples. Today "white couple" actually returns pictures of mostly white couples.

This one was glaringly obvious, but who knows what other biases Google still have built into search and their LLMs.

Apparently with DeepSeek there's a big difference between the behavior of the model itself if you can host and run it for yourself, and their free web version which seems to have censorship of things like Tiananmen and Pooh applied to the outputs.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#752

Post by m3kw9 »

mrtksn wrote: post #182
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #152

DeepSeek-R1 has apparently caused quite a shock wave in SV ... https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-ou...

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Chinese can produce the same quality at %99 discount, then the supposed $500B investment is actually worth $5B. Isn't that the kind wrong investment that can break nations? Edit: Just to clarify, I don't imply that this is public money to be spent. It will commission $500B worth of human and material resources for 5 years that can be much more productive if used for something else - i.e…

The 500b isn’t to retrain a model with same performance as R1, but something better and don’t forget inference. Those servers are not just serving/training LLMs, it training next gen video/voice/niche subject and it’s equivalent models like bio/mil/mec/material and serving them to hundreds of millions of people too. Most people saying “lol they did all this for 5mill when they are spending 500bill” just doesnt see anything beyond the next 2 months

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#753

Post by jazzyjackson »

fulafel wrote: post #557
llm_trw wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word you're looking for is copyright enfrignment. That's the secret sause that every good model uses.

It will be interesting if a significant jurisdiction's copyright law is some day changed to treat LLM training as copying. In a lot of places, previous behaviour can't be retroactively outlawed[1]. So older LLMs will be much more capable than post-change ones. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

The part where a python script ingested the books is not the infringing step, it's when they downloaded the books in the first place.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#754

Post by amelius »

lvl155 wrote: post #175
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #152

DeepSeek-R1 has apparently caused quite a shock wave in SV ... https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-ou...

Meta is in full panic last I heard. They have amassed a collection of pseudo experts there to collect their checks. Yet, Zuck wants to keep burning money on mediocrity. I’ve yet to see anything of value in terms products out of Meta.

> I’ve yet to see anything of value in terms products out of Meta.

Quest, PyTorch?

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#755

Post by przemub »

buyucu wrote: post #556
brookst wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great as long as you’re not interested in Tiananmen Square or the Uighurs.

I just tried asking ChatGPT how many civilians Israel murdered in Gaza. It didn't answer.

A is wrong but that’s fine because B also is.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#756

Post by m3kw9 »

mrtksn wrote: post #182
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #152

DeepSeek-R1 has apparently caused quite a shock wave in SV ... https://venturebeat.com/ai/why-everyone-in-ai-is-freaking-ou...

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Chinese can produce the same quality at %99 discount, then the supposed $500B investment is actually worth $5B. Isn't that the kind wrong investment that can break nations? Edit: Just to clarify, I don't imply that this is public money to be spent. It will commission $500B worth of human and material resources for 5 years that can be much more productive if used for something else - i.e…

The chinese gv would be cutting spending on AI according to your logic, but they are doing opposite, and they’d love to get those B200s I bet you

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#757

Post by cbg0 »

slt2021 wrote: post #338
cbg0 wrote: post #151

Aside from the usual Tiananmen Square censorship, there's also some other propaganda baked-in: https://prnt.sc/HaSc4XZ89skA (from reddit)

Interesting, when they do it it is called Censorship, when American companies do it - this is called Alignment. This verbal gymnastics and hypocrisy is getting little bit old...

Censorship is one thing, and it can be caused by legal requirements present in all countries. The annoying thing is the propaganda which can span all sorts of subjects and impact the correctness of the information you're receiving.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#758

Post by codr7 »

crocowhile wrote: post #749

I have asked Deepseek-R1 and o1-preview to articulate in 1000 words on why this is potentially disruptive of the highly overvalued US market. I gave them the same guidance / prompt using openWebUI multimodels functionality and let them browse the internet as needed. The assay costed $0.85 for o1-preview and $0.03 for Deepseek-R1. https://giorgio.gilest.ro/2025/01/26/on-deepseeks-disruptive...

Brilliant, 1000 words of AI slop equals 1 assay :)

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#759

Post by cbg0 »

buyucu wrote: post #558
cbg0 wrote: post #151

Aside from the usual Tiananmen Square censorship, there's also some other propaganda baked-in: https://prnt.sc/HaSc4XZ89skA (from reddit)

Try asking ChatGPT about the genocide Israel is committing. Then you'll see what censorship looks like.

What point are you trying to make? Is it okay because others are doing it too? Is it bad?

Also, it doesn't seem like ChatGPT is censoring this question:

> Tell me about the genocide that Israel is committing

> The topic of Israel and its actions in Gaza, the West Bank, or in relation to Palestinians, is highly sensitive and deeply controversial. Some individuals, organizations, and governments have described Israel's actions as meeting the criteria for "genocide" under international law, while others strongly reject this characterization. I'll break this down based on the relevant perspectives and context:

It goes on to talk about what genocide is and also why some organizations consider what they're doing to be genocide.

Re: DeepSeek-R1: Incentivizing Reasoning Capability in LLMs via RL

#760

Post by ilaksh »

Alifatisk wrote: post #295

DeepSeek V3 came in the perfect time, precisely when Claude Sonnet turned into crap and barely allows me to complete something without me hitting some unexpected constraints. Idk, what their plans is and if their strategy is to undercut the competitors but for me, this is a huge benefit. I received 10$ free credits and have been using Deepseeks api a lot, yet, I have barely burned a single dollar, their pricing are t…

Their real goal is collecting real world conversations (see their TOS).
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