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Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

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Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#751

Post by mmooss »

imgabe wrote: post #627
mmooss wrote: post #117

The problem isn't evil, but the lack of any leader standing up for good (using simplistic terms). The evil is always there, in our souls and in our society, as is the good; we just need to choose and use the latter to check the former. Who of any serious stature is standing up to Zuckerberg, Musk, Trump, etc.? The absence - the empty stage - is shocking. It is one of Biden's great responsibilities, but he has long ab…

> As a simple example, who is standing up for the LA fire chief? Why should anyone stand up for her? She is doing an objectively bad job. If you’re the fire chief and your entire city burns down, you will rightly catch flak for it. You had one job.

> Why should anyone stand up for her?

Because people are attacking her sexuality, not her job performance.

> you’re the fire chief and your entire city burns down, you will rightly catch flak for it. You had one job.

I don't know anyone who thinks the LAFD could have prevented this problem. Maybe they should be given ultimate power over zoning!

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#752

Post by gr3ml1n »

mruniverse wrote: post #711
arghnoname wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a business perspective, did it work? Was the team more, less, or equally effective than one where you didn't expend the time and expense of hiring a more homogenous group? Was turnover better or worse? I know you can't absolutely know the counter-factual, but I've always wondered this. Incidentally, when I was a young man and CS major, I changed majors and went into a different field because I wanted to be aroun…

Is the business perspective the right one to go with? Let's say it's legal to discriminate on race in hiring in the US. Then a Japanese restaurant hires only Japanese workers because they find customers prefer it. Do we want to have this?

It's a business. The business perspective is what's relevant.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#755

Post by [deleted] »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #732
kevinh wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People oppose efforts to make changes at the other end of the funnel too. This is the most popular post about Girls Who Code (the first organization that comes to mind, why I searched it): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6980431 You get similar complaints there.

There's a background assumption in this debate that society has a moral requirement to increase the representation of those who are underrepresented. I've never seen this assumption justified. What if it is actually fine for Asians to be under-represented in the NBA, and over-represented in software engineering?

[deleted]

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#756

Post by bigmutant »

typon wrote: post #365
bko wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people say DEI programs were purely performative and just for political points. But these policies did change the corporate landscape and affect hiring decisions. Of 323,092 new jobs added in 2021 by S&P 100 companies, 302,570 (94%) went to people of color This data came from workforce demographic reports submitted to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission by 88 S&P 100 companies Hispanic individua…

In my entire career working for US companies, I have yet to work with a black software engineer. Not a auxiliary role like PM, DevOps, IT but a straight SDE role. I have worked with literally hundreds of software engineers in my life.

Northrop Grumman had a lot of folks from Crenshaw/Hawthorne/Carson when I was there, due to a partnership program with the local Cal State (Long Beach). All of the security staff was from that area too. Good folks, would 100% work with them again.

On the other hand, I've seen exactly 1 guy at the FANG I work at. What's the difference? I think it's companies like Northrop realizing that folks from under-represented communities have great value and prioritize that instead of whatever the current HackerRank-based interview process selects for

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#758

Post by bigtimesink »

jmcdowell wrote: post #531
thefaux wrote: post #269

The really troubling news buried in this to me was the appointment of Dana White to the meta board of directors. Like seriously what purpose does he serve but to appease the new administration?

I'd recommend listening to the first hour of the podcast this is taken from just as he was more candid than I thought he would be. Zuckerberg at points brings up how the EU as is very defensive and has taken social media companies to court for the sum of 30 billion (never mentioning why). He laments how the US government need to be more protective of US tech companies overseas specifically naming the EU. When talking…

> When talking about Dana he says how he will explicitly help with them work with difficult foreign governments

Isn't this what Nick Clegg was an expert at?

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#759

Post by fooker »

annzabelle wrote: post #303
baq wrote: post #55

Are they rolling back Chinese and Indian managers only hiring Chinese and Indian folks, too?

That's the most egregious hiring practice I've actually seen. The white/black/hispanic/asian american managers all hire teams with multiple ethnicities based on the most qualified candidates for the job, while Indian born managers frequently seem to end up with teams that are 80+% Indian. I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white, even in roles that require US Citizenship, but 80% Indian happens frequently…

> I don't think I've ever seen a team that's 80% white

I have. But surely that won't convince you.

Re: Meta's memo to employees rolling back DEI programs

#760

Post by antics »

bastardoperator wrote: post #663
antics wrote: post #311

I am Wasq'u (a tribe in the PNW), I am connected to my tribe, and I am one of a handful of remaining speakers of the language. I am really tired of being caught in the maw of people fighting about my identity, what I am owed, and to some extent what place my identity has in society. To the pro-DEI crowd: I have some hard truths for you. Actual change requires commitment and focus over an extremely long period of time…

I don't have to be invested in a cause to know that diversity in problem solving can be a key component to success hence global technology companies, or that promoting the ideas of equity and inclusion are things most humans can benefit from. DEI is not about change or solving a particular problem, it's about awareness of perspective and seeking to understand others.

To be clear I am not arguing for or against working with a bunch of people from totally different backgrounds, demographics, etc. I am arguing that, because we can't do everything we should decide what really matters to us, commit to it in the long term, and invest in it to the exclusion of the many other completely worthy causes. I know it sounds obvious, but at least for the communities I belong to, the industry committed shallowly and as a result accomplished very little.
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