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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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751–760 of 1001 posts

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#751

For context, this is only possible because the state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member and thus give the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on Palestinian territory, whether by Israel or by Palestinian factions. The USA is still mad at them for doing it. The full account is worth reading, it includes considerations by the various resistance factions that they’d also be subje…

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#752
post #692

As a European, I find the reactions from the US politicians as related in this Al-Jazeera article quite choking : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/21/how-us-politicians... But maybe biased though. Anyone would have a link to some more nuanced statements with officials who do not sounds just like thugs?

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#753
post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in turn, thanks to orgs like AIPAC.

I had a look at the democrats who support the recent "Stop Terror-Financing and Tax Penalties on American Hostages Act". I had a look at 10 of them. 7 of them had substantial donations from AIPAC. The others were soon up for re-election. I am not American, but why oh why are you not rooting in the streets? That is just soooo effed up. This is just one of so many issues, and AIPAC is a just a part of the problem. It i…

> I am not American, but why oh why are you not rooting in the streets?

Fatigue and feelings of impotence, mostly. I don't think public protests are going to kick off campaign finance reform. And most people in the US feel that they have worse problems, and ignore the possibility that fixing campaign finance rules might cause us to end up with politicians who represent our interests better.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#754

For context, this is only possible because the state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member and thus give the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on Palestinian territory, whether by Israel or by Palestinian factions. The USA is still mad at them for doing it. The full account is worth reading, it includes considerations by the various resistance factions that they’d also be subje…

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> Palestine, officially the State of Palestine, is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia recognized by 146 out of 193 UN member states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#755
Reading the comments in this thread and reflecting on history a bit, the thought that comes to mind is that this is less a trial for the defendants and more a trial of the ICC and more broadly international institutions and their true independence, effectiveness and ultimately, relevance.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

There was never a 'rules-based world order'. We live purely in Pax Americana and every government exists at the pleasure of the United States. If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. Afghanistan happened because America lost the will, not the ability. Had America gone the normal colonial route, Afghanistan would look a lot different today.

Yes. However, Pax Americana did, at least initially, at least give semblance of established rules working. Now even that pretense is gone.

Eh. No. I am not sure where the concept this weird concept of 'bombing them to nothing did not help; we probably need to bomb them some more' comes from. I accept your premise that some of it is the question of will, but you have to admit that two decades with nothing to show for it is not.. great.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a 'rules-based world order'. We live purely in Pax Americana and every government exists at the pleasure of the United States. If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. Afghanistan happened because America lost the will, not the ability. Had America gone the normal colonial route, Afghanistan would look a lot different today.

> If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. It could possibly conquer many countries by largely destroying them as was done to Germany and Japan, but since the US is a democracy and a sizable portion of its people have morals and aren't sociopaths, it's politically impossible to fight a war this way in the modern era without some kind of extreme provocation. Even immedia…

> Even immediately after 9/11, I think most Americans would not have signed on to a campaign of total war in Afghanistan with multiple millions dead.

This falls clearly under 'not wanting to'.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#758
post #510
post #45

"The Chamber therefore found reasonable grounds to believe that Mr Netanyahu and Mr Gallant bear criminal responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare." Whats perhaps interesting to note is that this charge was made for "just" 41 [1] confirmed starvation deaths among a population of 2,141,643 people [2]. Of course every death caused by intentional starvation is a severe crime and must be puni…

Starvation vs starvation to death are different things. War crime of starvation was directed against 2.3 million people without distinction, incl. ~1 million children. I'd say that's bad enough.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#759
post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

The rules-based order was always a fiction; international law is a tool used solely against America’s enemies.

This arrest warrant could be executed in a day if the US would stop supporting this genocide, but that won’t happen. They will sooner invite Netanyahu back to the UN to order more air strikes on refugees.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, nobody really knows until the trial (if one ever happens). Its easy to be convincing when you are just listening to the prosecution - it gets harder once the defense has the opportunity to poke holes. Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. > The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The court already disagreed with said panel on one of the charges (c…

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

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