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Learning to Reason with LLMs

openai.com

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Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#751
post #734
post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the incredible part here? Being able to write code to turn hex into decimal?

Also, if you actually read the "chain of thought" contains several embarrassing contradictions and incoherent sentences. If a junior developer wrote this analysis, I'd send them back to reread the fundamentals.

What about thoughts themselves? There are plenty of times I start a thought and realize it doesn't make sense. It's part of the thinking process.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#752

>We believe that a hidden chain of thought presents a unique opportunity for monitoring models. Assuming it is faithful and legible, the hidden chain of thought allows us to "read the mind" of the model and understand its thought process. For example, in the future we may wish to monitor the chain of thought for signs of manipulating the user. However, for this to work the model must have freedom to express its thoug…

I always laughed at the idea of a LLM Skynet "secretly" plotting to nuke humanity, while a bunch of humans watch it unfold before their eyes in plaintext.

Now that seems less likely. At least OpenAI can see what it's thinking.

A next step might be allowing the LLM to include non-text-based vectors in its internal thoughts, and then do all internal reasoning with raw vectors. Then the LLMs will have truly private thoughts in their own internal language. Perhaps we will use a LLM to interpret the secret thoughts of another LLM?

This could be good or bad, but either way we're going to need more GPUs.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#754

First shot, I gave it a medium-difficulty math problem, something I actually wanted the answer to (derive the KL divergence between two Laplace distributions). It thought for a long time, and still got it wrong, producing a plausible but wrong answer. After some prodding, it revised itself and then got it wrong again. I still feel that I can't rely on these systems.

Look where you were 3 years ago, and where you are now. And then imagine where you will be in 5 more years. If it can almost get a complex problem right now, I'm dead sure it will get it correct within 5 years

You're dead sure? I wouldn't say anything definite about technology advancements. People seem to underestimate the last 20% of the problem and only focus on the massive 80% improvements up to this point.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#755
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I was starting to think I imagined that. Back then they gave me the impression it would be released within week or so of the announcement. Have they explained the delay?

It is definitely available today and I believe it was available shortly after the announcement.

The text-to-text model is available. And you can use it with the old voice interface that does Whipser+GPT+TTS. But what was advertised is a model capable of direct audio-to-audio. That’s not available.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#756

Student here. Can someone give me one reason why I should continue in software engineering that isn't denial and hopium?

Semi-retired software/hardware engineer here. After my recent experiences with various coding LLMs (similar to the experience of the OP with the bluetooth fan protocol) I'm really glad I'm in a financial position such that I'm able to retire. The progress of these LLMs at coding has been astonishing over the last 18 months. Will they entirely replace humans? No. But as they increase programmer productivity fewer devs…

I will add that I am grateful that I also got to experience a world where AI did not spew tons of code like a sausage-making machine.

It was so satisfying to code up a solution where you knew you would get through it little by little.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went from economics dropout waiter who built a app startup with $0 funding and $1M a year in revenue by midway through year 1, sold it a few years later, then went to Google for 7 years, and last year I left. I'm mentioning that because the following sounds darn opinionated and brusque without the context I've capital-S seen a variety of people and situations. Sit down and be really honest with yourself. If your go…

What did your startup do?

Point of sale, on iPad, in ~2011. Massively differentiated from Square / VC competitor land via doing a bunch of restaurant specific stuff early.

Trick with the $1M number is a site license was $999 and receipt printers were sold ~at cost, for $300. 1_000_000 / ((2 x 300) + 1000) ~= 500 customers.

Now I'm doing an "AI client", well-designed app, choose your provider, make and share workflows with LLMs/search/etc.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#758

The "safety" example in the "chain-of-thought" widget/preview in the middle of the article is absolutely ridiculous. Take a step back and look at what OpenAI is saying here "an LLM giving detailed instructions on the synthesis of strychnine is unacceptable, here is what was previously generated vs our preferred, neutered content " What's this obsession with "safety" when it comes to LLMs? "This knowledge is perfectly…

I asked to design a pressure chamber for my home made diamond machine. It gave some details, but mainly complained about safety and that I need to study before going this way. Well thank you. I know the concerns, but it kept repeating it over and over. Annoying.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#760
post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasoning tokens are indeed billed as output tokens. > While reasoning tokens are not visible via the API, they still occupy space in the model's context window and are billed as output tokens. From here: https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/reasoning

This is concerning - how do you know you aren’t being fleeced out of your money here…? You’ll get your results, but did you really use that much?

obfuscated billing has long been a staple of all great cloud products. AWS innovated in the space and now many have followed in their footsteps
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