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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#751

Post by robotelvis »

p1mrx wrote: post #385
robotelvis wrote: post #335

I recently joined my local Elks club and the experience has been amazing. Being social is effortless. I just show up at the lodge and people I know will be there. As a parent I can let the kids run wild with other kids within the safe confines of the lodge and have adult conversations. If I don’t have plans, I don’t need to sit home reading the internet. I go to the lodge. It’s weird that groups like the Elks have de…

> It’s weird that groups like the Elks have declined so much in recent decades https://www.elks.org/who/missionStatement.cfm "To be accepted as a member, one must [...] believe in God" There are groups like UU and Sunday Assembly that don't have this requirement.

They do indeed that rule. It’s somewhat controversial internally and I can imagine it eventually going away, but is there now.

Fortunately they are pretty relaxed about what you mean by God. I’m a pantheist (everything is God and individual consciousness is an illusion) and AFAICT that’s fine. Nobody dug into my beliefs you find out exactly what I thought.

I think the key intention is that you can’t be a hedonist who cares only about yourself. You need to care about living a life of service to something greater than yourself. I’m on board with that.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#752

Post by robotelvis »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #373
robotelvis wrote: post #335

I recently joined my local Elks club and the experience has been amazing. Being social is effortless. I just show up at the lodge and people I know will be there. As a parent I can let the kids run wild with other kids within the safe confines of the lodge and have adult conversations. If I don’t have plans, I don’t need to sit home reading the internet. I go to the lodge. It’s weird that groups like the Elks have de…

> It’s weird that groups like the Elks have declined so much in recent decades, because it feels they really are the solution to a problem everyone complains about. Social orgs can supplement a healthy community. They can't replace one, however. A healthy community is one where it is trivial for kids to go on their own to a safe space. A place where they can Kid together, free from interfering adults.

To some extent the Elks is a healthy community. Our lodge is definitely a place where kids can hang out together free from interfering adults - that’s what our kids do there with their friends all the time.

We show up, they run off and do their thing with the other kids. We find them when it’s time to go home.

It’s a place with a fence so they can’t wander of, where you know everyone is safe to be around, and where you know if something bad happened another Elk would see and sort it and and come tell you.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#753

Post by bravetraveler »

seesaw wrote: post #731
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this happened because of personal changes. Absent interference, people would almost certainly form close community. We need to look for the source of the interference, individual actions aren’t enough.

My experience is very similar. I believe there are two primary reasons for this: 1. People are wealthier, and wealthier people tend to be more independent. 2. Population density is higher. Places with lower density, such as villages still tend to have that people to people connection like in the old days

I grew up poor, in a village, but otherwise have had a fairly rich life. I've landed on the other side: well off and in the city. Still alone, however.

The hassle of finding my way in life and finally doing it made me "overly independent" given common sentiment.

I'm generally fine, yet outside of posts like this... I have absolutely no interest to connect. When people at work try to get close I actually feel saddened by my incapability.

The argument could certainly be made that opening up strengthens. That may be true. It may also be a transactional relationship going the other way.

I've had that vulnerability exploited enough. It's not as simple as "we like smooshing our meat bits together". Game theory exists.

Avoidance, yes, but show me where it has failed... me.

Rhetorical, not an accusation: it feels very strange to judge others for their independence. Why, so you can benefit?

Personally, the question isn't "why aren't people socializing". It's: "why is it worthwhile?". There's no universal answer - we must find it, I'm still trying.

All of this to say, we all play our hands. Sometimes too well.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#754

Post by bmacho »

jimmy1337 wrote: post #72
piva00 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while occasionally arguing with pseudo-anonymous internet strangers. Even this has been eroding, the amount of comments made by bots I see across reddit/Twitter has increased exponentially since the 2010s. It only got worse after LLMs.

I made an ‘Ask HN’ yesterday about the dire state of bots on the web and the lack of conversation around it. After a few mins, with 4 upvotes and one user reply it was [flagged] and I couldn’t even reply to the person. So I am left with the impression we aren’t allowed to discuss bots on the web on this platform. Edit: This comment not appearing for others?

This comment is appearing. However your submission is not visible to me, https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=jimmy1337 appears to seem empty.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#755

Post by sublinear »

vishnugupta wrote: post #101

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…

I don't mean to be so brutal about it, but these small social interactions were simply never valued that much by the majority and maybe even seen as a nuisance.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#756

Post by s1artibartfast »

knighthack wrote: post #745
s1artibartfast wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have very different perceptions of the world, but I don't have much interest in having a discussion predicated on quotes from imaginary characters.

You take a morally superior position, and you are condescending. As if discussions and examples using imaginary characters are somehow 'lowly', and can't be used as a fair commentary of society. In comparison, Plato's works often feature dialogues where characters, including Socrates, engage in arguments, which present various perspectives on philosophical issues through fictionalized conversations. That style of wri…

I don't think OPs points were on par with plato, and neither do you.

I think that form of communication is indicative of poor mental function and inability to communicate. The world would be better off if everyone simply refuses to engage with it and ridiculed it instead of validating it with engagement.

An anecdote is not an argument, and an imaginary one is even worse.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#757

Post by brnt »

Nextgrid wrote: post #649
TbobbyZ wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is now our God.

Money is just a means of exchange. But basic human rights such as housing now being monetized and rented out and/or used as an investment means the endless pursuit of money is now mandatory to survive.

Money is an abstraction and that is where humans interpretation starts to diverge. I think that may be this problem in a nutshell: abstractions are always leaky, and they leak in different places for different people.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#758

Post by baxtr »

the_snooze wrote: post #98
bustling-noose wrote: post #62

About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…

When I'm out at a sit-down restaurant, I always make a mental note of everyone who has their phone out on the table. It's usually 50-50. Not necessarily using them, but within view, as if they're waiting for something else instead of prioritizing the people who took the time to be physically around them in the same place and time. No wonder lots of people feel disconnected. They forgot how to connect in even the most…

I’m old enough to remember a time where you would see couples on the table next to you that wouldn’t talk the entire night but listen in to other table’s conversations.

Smartphones make not working social relationships more visible, but I doubt they’re the root cause.

I will forget my phone if I’m having an excellent live experience, eg a great conversation.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#759

Post by oarsinsync »

stoperaticless wrote: post #587
theossuary wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the issue is pedantic people like you who can't understand that "want" is a simple way of saying that a system is biased towards certain outcomes. Capitalism is not an expression of human nature, it's a single possible pareto equilibrium. To say otherwise ignores huge swaths of humans history, and many modern nations which have achieved equilibrium in different ways.

I understand capitalism as “things can be owned and sold” + “you can profit from investment”. > it's a single possible pareto equilibrium I propose that those other equilibriums’ stability depended on at least one of these: a) small population size&density b) violent totalitarian enforcement c) indoctrination in caste system and/or religion d) no contact with capitalism > Capitalism is not an expression of human natu…

> Ownership is very natural for humans (2 year old already declares “it’s mine”).

The idea that something a two year old does is a suitable basis for the foundations of society as a whole is both hilarious and terrifying. Two year olds are tyrants.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#760

Post by juanani »

svieira wrote: post #705
paulryanrogers wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 'chose' God for decades until it became clear he/she/it doesn't exist any more than santa, the toothfairy, and leprechauns. So until there is some evidence besides vibes and evidence-free testimony, I'm choosing to believe there is no God. Thankfully beliefs aren't permanent, or I'd still be anxious and miserable. Perhaps you should not permanently choose a god who has caused so much harm for no benefit.

I hope and pray that you are not anxious or miserable and that you can find your way to the path to permanent happiness and stick with it to the end!

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