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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#751

Post by spaniard89277 »

noduerme wrote: post #322
gottorf wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

In Europe we have inmmigrants from all over the world, but consistently there's an area in a continent that shows up in crime stats way more than others. Can you explain that? Is that we are all xenophobic or racists or can we admit that there's a cultural component into it, because similar migrants within the same continent but different culture do actually do ok?

Other times may have different outcomes because countries and cultures change. Spain for example is a completely different country from what it was in the 80s, economically and culturally.

When you live in a place, and you see the same people showing up in stats, and people see the same behavior over and over and over and over, it's about time to quit calling people things and admit that something is going on and we should do things differently.

And if you don't then someone will show up promising to deal with it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#752

Post by PentiumBug »

blendo wrote: post #515
PentiumBug wrote: post #290

As a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have el…

> Hardliners have grown worried that the experiment with capitalism could threaten the government’s tight grip on power, and the Cuban military, which used to control most foreign currency coming into the island, is viewing these companies as competition, sources in Cuba said. How much blame does the military have for the mass exodus of Cubans?

Everything? Allow me to expand a little.

The military is where all the real power is concentrated, and not because of being military per se. They have no might whatsoever in relation to other countries... they probably have two working jets from the 1970s, four boats with rotting hulls, eleven pistols, and eight rifles. However, they do have a shadow and parallel economic system that exists beyond public scrutiny. By design. Quoting the Treasury Department: Grupo de Administración Empresarial S.A. (GAESA) is a Cuban military-controlled umbrella enterprise with interests in the tourism, financial investment, import/export, and remittance sectors of Cuba’s economy. GAESA’s portfolio includes businesses incorporated in Panama to bypass CACR-related restrictions.

Those people can, and do, summon whatever resources they need to do whatever they want. In particular, the idea that Cuba should be a tourist destination has made them build hotels left and right, bleeding other services dry. And by services, I mean, everything else. That's why everything is in decay, collapsing, and why people choose to leave (one of the reasons, of course).

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#753

Post by ndiddy »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #597
lowkey wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like Trump’s immigration stance has evolved significantly in the seven years since this article was written. A few weeks ago he appeared on the All-in podcast and promoted the idea of giving green cards en masse to foreign students upon graduation. I support the idea even if I don’t support the candidate.

Meanwhile if we forget what his lips are doing and watch for the fist we’d see his republican party has a different agenda. Namely one about picking certain favorite nations and excluding others. Really just read the project 2025 materials and forget whatever tangents he goes on, as he doesn’t hold himself accountable to what he might say.

The Democrat obsession with Trump implementing Project 2025 strikes me as similar to the Republican obsession with Biden implementing the Green New Deal a few years ago. It's the president's radical legislation that isn't endorsed by the president and isn't legislation.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#754

Post by rayiner »

39896880 wrote: post #490
rayiner wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Lesser? The US is the largest economy in the history of the world. And military. It is responsible for brokering and maintaining the freest, most prosperous time in history — the post WWII globalization. Oh, here’s where I’ll be a little less, er, academic — as someone who lives in a city shaped by the influx of Irish and Italian immigrants - fuck out of here with “lesser”.

Does a big economy and military make a country great? America is in shambles in terms of order, governance, rule of law—the constitution has been shredded—and social trust, which is exactly what you would expect to be affected by social change from immigration.

I said “arguably lesser,” because people obviously have different utility functions. I would say an orderly and well governed society like Sweden or Germany is better than a chaotic and disorderly but somewhat richer society like the United States. Obviously people may differ on that. My point is that immigration changed the country fundamentally.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#755

Post by aconsult1 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #6

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

I've been smoking cigars for the past 15 years. I was lucky enough to have smoked only cuban cigars (which are legal where I'm from), so I know them very well.

Nicaragua and Dominican Republic are garbage compared to Cubans, still to this day. Several times while in the US (where I've lived in the past few years) I tried to smoke non-cuban cigars. Not once I found something that was remotely close to the worse cuban I've had.

My basic understanding is because of two factors: 1. The tobacco doesn't grow anywhere else like it does in Cuba. It's an island with very specific combination of soil and weather that can't be replicated. The tobacco leafs are huge in Cuba and that makes a big difference when making a cigar which ideally should use as few leafs as possible. 2. The best workers that know how to select, blend and roll a cigar are still all in Cuba. Other countries tried to replicate but they don't come close in terms of skills and knowledge.

I don't have sources for the two factors above but my experience tells me it adds up.

I only heard people complimenting non-cuban cigars here in the US. Nowhere else. Which sounds fair or else the entire cigar industry would have gone bankrupt without access to the best stuff. Overtime you won't find people in the US who understands what a cuban cigar is like because they have no exposure to it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#756

Post by spaniard89277 »

weweweoo wrote: post #674
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

Personally I think it's less about accepting others, and more about the fact European economy sucks, has rigid job markets, and lacks entrepreneurial spirit. Historically people left Europe to the US, because that's where you could improve your life through hard work. Those Chinese-Americans improved their life by founding successful businesses, which doesn't seem to happen so much over here. Obviously the US being a…

The economy sucks for everyone, not only a subset of poor migrants. A subset of african migrants show up in crime stats way more than plenty of other poor migrants coming from pretty much everywhere, be it asia, africa or latam.

Some poor indian has no advantage coming to Spain compared to someone from the Magreb, in fact we could argue quite the opposite as their support networks/country of origin are pretty far away.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#757

Post by tryauuum »

BurningFrog wrote: post #163

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

Don't know much about embargoes but at least with GPUs it's much more evil

Even if GPU manufacturer sells GPUs to a company which is not in embargo list they usually have agreements in place about not reselling them to the companies in embargo list

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#758

Post by alephnerd »

dazc wrote: post #748
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

'Europe has a problem with integration that has its roots in the ethnic character of its states...' In the UK we have large numbers of both Pakistani and Indian immigrants. One group has integrated mostly successfully in all walks of life and the other one has not. Hard to argue that this has not been a consequence of choice although plenty of experts, who have never lived with 100 miles of these communities, tell us…

The Pakistani (most Pahari/Mirpuri) community was segregated in de facto ghettos and were brought to work unskilled manual labor jobs in a couple industrial estates in the 50s-70s.

When the UK began deindustrializing, they were extremely hard hit because the factories shut down.

Poverty and Northern England racism (BNP was normalized and doing hate crimes well into the early 2000s, schools were shite with grammar schools closing, etc) kept Mirpuris stuck in the ghetto.

And trust me - a Brown guy - when I say that tbe UK is miles more racist and passive aggressive to Desis compared to the US or Canada.

Why integrate in a country that keeps being passive aggressive and using your community as a scapegoat.

This is why my parents moved to North America instead of Europe in the 1990s - heck my dad had an offer to work for ARM plc in Cambridge back then around the initial IPO.

None of the doors I was able to open here in the US would have been opened if I were in the UK or Germany.

I'll get amazing schacenfreude when Labour finishes signing the FTA with India in a couple months and Rolls Royce and Dyson begin slowly moving operations.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#759

Post by spaniard89277 »

skrebbel wrote: post #686
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

Great observation. I’m European and I agree. We Europeans love to look down upon America when it comes to stuff like functional government, bicycle paths and public services, but wrt immigration we’re so far behind the US, it’s not even funny. > a path toward integration (as in, "to become American"; there is neither an equivalent aspiration nor option "to become French") We really need to copy this vibe wholesale fr…

The only reason you're thinking this way it's because you're thinking about problematic migrants, but there are many others you don't see. They don't need to become French, Spanish, Dutch, etc. They're perfectly fine feeling from $country in $eurocountry, going on with their lifes.

Europe is not the US, it can't be, and that doesn't mean we're at fault of everything. Many poor migrants come and do ok and have the same opportunities and challenges that others who fail.

But somehow is always the same subset we think about.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#760

Post by mfru »

mattmaroon wrote: post #730
seydor wrote: post #729

In southern europe we call this "Brain drain". It's a global phenomenon it seems, freedom of movement leads to contentration of productive forces to a few global cities, while the rest of the planet is increasingly deserted

Doesn’t brain drain imply the smarter people are moving? I’m not sure that’s what’s happening here. I think it’s anyone who can get out. When I was in Havana our AirBnB was next to the Spanish embassy. There was a long line every morning of potential emigres waiting for their turn. (I have no idea how the process works when they get to the front of the line, I just was told they were trying to get out of the country…

> After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why.

Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon, much to the dislike of the entire rest of the world.

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