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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

gizmodo.com

751–760 of 769 posts

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#751
post #19

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell. The main usage I see is mainly self checkout. Please note that I'm biased towards dense areas. We have on-the-go scanning in super stores as well, I feel it's not being used but I could be wrong

> We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell.

Which part of France are you in? Where I am, Paris suburbs, I see it used all the time in Carrefour.

There is a learning curve, which I think inhibits wider usage. I used it a couple of times, and every time I forgot to scan stuff, or forgot whether I scanned stuff, and had to go over the last scans to check.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#752
post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also food delivery drivers employed directly by restaurants typically have an insulated carrier in their car or on their bike to keep your food warm. Uber Eats drivers don't so the food gets cold way faster.

Guess that depends on your location - in the 3 European countries I've lived in, Deliveroo and Uber drivers/riders almost universally had insulated cuboid bags (usually with one of the companies' branding on) in their car or on their bike in all three countries, while Dominos pizza was the same in one country, in another country Dominos used cars with no insulation except the cardboard pizza box, and I don't know abo…

Uber Eats drivers definitely don't have them where I live. Food almost always arrives cold, even when the delivery time is very short. When I lived in NYC most deliveries were done by bike and all of them had insulated bags so the food was typically warm unless it had been super delayed.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#754
Is it intentional that so many people are confusing/conflating teams in India labeling data for input to a machine learning algorithm vs. teams in India watching you shop in real time? It's the former. That's how machine learning works. You need labeled training data as input. The article clearly states it's only a small minority of all customers that had to be corrected in real time by actual people.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of services would be phenomenal when you can offload much of the cost to run them to cheap offshore labor. Remember how great Uber and Doordash were when much of the cost of operating was offset by underpaid workers and VC funds? Now that they don't have unlimited piles of money and cities/states are making them pay more fair wages, the cost-benefit of those services has diminished. I was ok paying $5 for $20 of…

From my point of view, Uber and DD were always going to head in that direction because by any objective measure, they are worse than the solution that already existed. The introduction of a middleman created new costs for drivers, customers, and restaurants alike, yet it's actually worse at delivering food than the conventional "drivers work for the restaurant" model. Sure, you get one website where you can see all t…

> they are worse than the solution that already existed.

In my country taxis were (and price wise still are) the worst; Uber is a vast improvement; better cars, nicer drivers, convenient booking (until very recently you had to call 1 day in advance to book a taxi) and a bizarrely lower price. The same trip with a normal taxi costing 130 euros is 30 with Uber. So yeah, no. Oh but the taxi companies made their own app! Which is of course a horrible failure.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t take a phd to make a coffee, no matter how fancy the cinnamon/cocoa heart is. All you're saying here is that you've failed to see the value in customer service, hospitality, speed, accuracy, politeness, etc that go with a retail coffeeshop job. The coffee is the same in pretty much every Starbucks, but the experience can vary wildly depending on how good the baristas are at everything else besides making c…

Yes, that’s what I’m sort of saying. I haven’t failed to see any of that. But it doesn’t take a phd to make coffee politely or less politely. All I want is the coffee. Don’t ask me what my name is. I don’t care about the „experience”.

The 10x developers don't exist. You can get somebody off a days experience to write a couple lines of code, so there's no skill involved in it.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#757
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my point of view, Uber and DD were always going to head in that direction because by any objective measure, they are worse than the solution that already existed. The introduction of a middleman created new costs for drivers, customers, and restaurants alike, yet it's actually worse at delivering food than the conventional "drivers work for the restaurant" model. Sure, you get one website where you can see all t…

Did you ever try getting groceries/food (other than pizza) delivered before the apps? Uber didn’t replace a better option, they made it literally possible to get these services in many places where it wasn’t an option at all. And in areas like Manhattan, where city cabs and delivery options abound - the the fact that many (most?) people still use UberEats/DD is instructive. The value of convenience is significant. I…

The value of convenience may be significant but is it really great enough to find the cost of providing that convenience without external subsidy over the long run.

To me it is ridiculous that anybody thought local personal services like food delivery, dog walking, and taxi driving could ever be converted into durable, efficient, profitable national or global monopolies. In the absence of monopoly power such low barrier to entry commodity services invariably see their profit margins squeezed to cost from competition. All this is freshman or highschool level economics.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the workers might otherwise be doing: perhaps just toiling in the fields for 16 hours a day That is robber barron propaganda to make you believe their enslavement of people (by creating the right situation where the people have no choice) is actual good for them.

They are not slaves, they are free to quit and work somewhere else. Are they not?

Right... so the line goes. They're free to go to any neighbouring city that will do the same to them now that we've destroyed the village (by poaching young people in various ways. There are many ways to destroy a city if you are strategic and have financing.)

In these countries the cities are created around the factories etc and planned as part of the development.

You're not free once your subsistence relies on this corporation. It's slavery but because some tokens are being transferred (the food supply is probably also corp. owned--especially in the early stages of the development) it is possible to fool the naive / stupid into think this is not slavery.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#759
post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They likely meant that onboarding takes three days. As there is no meaningful metric for competence beyond that (or at least no metric that is measured and used) "good" doesn't apply. There are of course tons of ways a good, seasoned barista distinguishes themselves from a trainee with 3 days of onboarding but those are externalities. The difference between skilled and unskilled labor is not whether competence and ex…

> They likely meant that onboarding takes three days. You can onboard welding in less than 30 days too. > As there is no meaningful metric for competence beyond that (or at least no metric that is measured and used) "good" doesn't apply. Barista quality isn't much harder to measure than weld quality. "and used" is a cop-out.

Sure but unless you're Tesla, welding quality is more relevant to your bottom line than coffee making quality (yes, I'm aware there's more to being a good barista than just making the coffee).

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#760
post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't what they meant apparently but in a very literal sense, pay can never be enough because it is economically necessary to underpay workers relative to what they contribute because profit by definition can only exist from surplus value, i.e. making more money from selling the product of labor than you pay for that labor. If I pay a worker $20 per hour to make 20 doodads an hour in my doodad factory and then s…

Luckily we live in a society with at least some degree of freedom, enough to where if a worker is convinced that they are entitled to 100% of their self-percieved value of their contribution then they can and should start their own company. As what you are referring to is ownership compensation. Many workers do this. Unfortunately, much if not most of the time this calculation by the worker will be in error. As they…

> Unfortunately, much if not most of the time this calculation by the worker will be in error. As they tend to exclude the company scaffolding that they are not responsible for but that enables them to make their contribution.

I literally addressed that "company scaffolding" in more detail than you do here (second sentence of the second paragraph). There's no error here though as running the company and owning the company are two different things and while there are plenty of business owners who need to work for their own company to keep it running, we're specifically talking about surplus value after the cost of paying all labor (including your own, at market rate), i.e. what ends up either being reinvested at the end of the fiscal year or drained by the owners/shareholders as dividends. You may need someone to run the business side of things, you don't need that person to also own the company, be able to drain any profits and fire you at will.

> If group ownership is important, workers can certainly begin a business with that in mind.

We like to proudly talk about individualism when it comes to seeking praise for personal achievements but times like this demonstrate how it can blind us to systems thinking. Yes, you can create a worker cooperative. And yes, you can be a business owner who tries to be "fair" to their workers. But you exist in competition with other businesses who don't engage in such "waste" and you compete in a system where the "benefits" of such an approach are considered externalities and have no direct value (even if you try to argue it's "positive PR" that will only get you so far). In other words, the system disincentivizes and actively punishes redistributing surplus value to your (co-)workers - because it's literally based on profit-seeking (i.e. maximizing that surplus).

> Asset ownership being the key to legal and ethical economic success in this world.

Yes, and asset ownership is only attainable if you have the necessary capital to buy assets. Being self-employed won't get you far because you're still selling your labor for money (just with fewer middlemen but in practice not really) and if everyone owned their own business that's all they'd accomplish. If you want to be economically successful from asset ownership rather than labor, you want your "asset" to "do the work for you" (i.e. passive income). But in real-world terms this ultimately means you need to get a cut (i.e. profit) from someone else's labor (and they therefore can't take this advice or else they wouldn't be in that position for you).

I'm a business owner. I've been at various stages self-employed, an employer and a business owner using external freelancers and subcontractors. But I have no illusions that essentially the easiest "legal and ethical" economic success I've seen involved little more than either rent seeking (i.e. being paid for continuous usage of something you already built/bought) or scalping (i.e. selling something someone else made/did at an inflated price and pocketing the difference).

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