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Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#751

Post by AshamedCaptain »

internetter wrote: post #41
procgen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disregarding the letter of the law seems arbitrary and capricious.

Is it? Developers used to determinism in software frequently don't understand that in all jurisdictions the law is ultimately interpreted by humans. I've been going through some legal processes myself, and my friend who is a lawyer reminded me more times than I care to admit that this is the case. In the US, SCOTUS's job is literally to interpret the spirit of the law in the event of ambiguity.

Developers are fully used to this ambiguity and "spirit of the law" when interpreting standards. Search for WeirdNIX (popularly known as Windows NT and other names too).

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#752

Post by Nevermark »

frizlab wrote: post #59
klaustopher wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a business point, I can totally understand what Apple is doing. Making this as painful and unpredictable (as a developer you never know if your app will be successfull and gain more than 1 million installs) is the way to keep developers using the old contract and keep them on the app store. This makes sense for Apple to find every loophole possible ... As a consumer, and an Apple users, I want them to be slapped…

Funny how things go. As a consumer especially, but even as a developer I don’t want the DMA to succeed and purposefully want iOS to be a walled garden. It’s literally one of the reasons why I’m on iOS!

I doubt it. "Walled" and "Safety" are getting confused here.

I think you like the App Store for its safety. You trust it, enough to be happy with it.

What does that have to do with wanting others to be denied alternatives? That deliver however much safety and different benefits that other people want?

If safety is one of Apple store's selling points, then competitive app stores will push Apple to deliver even more safety. Perhaps new forms of safety others pioneer. Apple didn't invent security or sandboxes. While also encouraging it to loosen non-safety driven (and therefore quietly non-customer friendly) restrictions on innovation.

That can only benefit you.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#753

Post by vbezhenar »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #673
redundantly wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For your safety, of course. I know they have ulterior motives for their walled garden, but this is a product of said garden. The App Store is by far much safer to use than Google's Play Store. Plus the parental controls on android are essentially non-existent. I'm happy in this walled garden.

The premise of a walled garden is to keep unwanted things out, not to imprison you inside. Apple maintaining a store where they've vetted everything in it is fine, and if you like you can refuse to install anything from outside of it. That doesn't justify them prohibiting you from installing anything from outside of it. It should be up to you. If you wanted to, you could even configure your phone to not add any new s…

Those who like AppStore actually benefit from it being the only store. It means that almost all developers will bend under Apple rules and users will get their apps.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#754

Post by zb3 »

sircastor wrote: post #725
klaustopher wrote: post #13

I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. The 50ct per install for alternate app stores, 50ct per install for non-App Store apps after the millionth install, 1 million dollar in securities for alternate app stores, etc all follow the words of the DMA, but not the spirit. I am really interested to see the European Commissian…

> I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. Maybe this is an American trait, but I would be surprised at any company that wouldn't be doing this. A law has been made that affects our business: How do we comply with the law with as little impact as possible to us? Some of the comments here seem to expect Apple to simply give…

Can't they just make their devices more expensive instead?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#755

Post by asadotzler »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #510
sneak wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their shareholders can, and will.

lol. Shareholders won’t care if Apple pulls out of Europe if Europe makes it impossible to make a profit. Another comment claims that the App Store represents something like 40% of Apple’s profit. If you chop a company’s profit in half and lay on a bunch of regulatory costs, pulling out of the market starts to look appealing. And, who is to say that the EC will stop here? What happens when all the alternative app sto…

Apple has reported to the EU that Apple's EU App Store revenue is 7% of their global revenue, a far cry from 40% of their profits. Don't believe what some rando posted here and then base your entire comment on that belief or be prepared to be wrong much of the time, and in embarrassing ways.

Apple can't even afford to lose that though or Cook would face a board and shareholder revolt.

And what if the EC doesn't stop there, well, most of us are hoping they won't an that Apple will be paying billions in fines until they cut the malicious compliance song and dance and get serious about respecting the EU's competition laws. Apple cannot leave and will not leave and so they will ultimately do what ever the EC demands of them. It's just a matter of how much they pay in fines first.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#756

Post by endisneigh »

docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

I’m very curious how you have this position yet have a MacBook. Why not support a better company like framework?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#757

Post by endisneigh »

somat wrote: post #489

The whole app ecosystem(android and apple) is carefully constructed for maximum market owner value extraction, user value is a secondary consideration. Basically, it is what the web would look like if it were developed by corporate interests, conversely "apps" could have been a better designed web[1], but instead are this comparatively clunky gated process where you have to explicitly install the app first only then…

There’s literally nothing stopping someone from distributing their app as a web app, and no PWA isn’t necessary for distribution.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#758

Post by throwaway2037 »

docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

Overall -- a great post.

This part:

   > If commercial real estate charged XX% cuts of all sales from a business
As I understand, for luxury fashion brands, this type of contract is sometimes used.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#759

Post by xvector »

endisneigh wrote: post #756
docmars wrote: post #750

Oh the horror, it must be so hard for Apple to cave to an open system for these people. What will they ever do without their unbelievable tax on app profits simply for existing on their nearly unlimited real estate, that is, the web?! I have no sympathy for their concerns. I can download apps on my MacBook machines all day from many different sources, and it harms no one. While I understand the associated risks, comp…

I’m very curious how you have this position yet have a MacBook. Why not support a better company like framework?

Because MacBooks are just better. (Have owned both.)

I have owned, and continue to own, all sorts of laptops and phones. I could rant about Apple all day long online, but in the end their product is simply superior.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#760

Post by sandoze »

asveikau wrote: post #747
stouset wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's all about maintaining their app store monopoly. Does this only makes sense if you assume payments are tied to the App Store? They aren’t. If you remove payments from your list of motivations, what do you presume Apple’s motivation is to encourage apps to list themselves on the App Store and not a third-party marketplace?

Apple fans would always claim that this was a security measure to prevent malware. I have always found the claim dubious. If you believe in that as a security measure, you could still have a signing requirement and apple could revoke trust on known-bad binaries. Which is probably what they will do.

Mind giving some high level clarification on how Apple would revoke entitlements on applications they’re not allowed to manage? Honestly curious about the infrastructure involved, is it really simple from a technological stand point?

If the developer needs to use Apple resources to track and manage said entitlements, and the consumer expects Apple to police bad actors, then are we asking Apple to do this for free on the bad actor’s behalf (oops, I didn’t mean to use your microphone, GPS, BLE in order to sell the info to an enemy state, law enforcement, angry ex!) or should the cost of said infrastructure be passed to the customer when purchasing hardware? OR does Apple wait until an application is exposed, generally through an echo chamber after the damage is done and is made aware of the issue?

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