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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#751

Post by CivBase »

alexvoda wrote: post #116
McNutty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. This platform for tech news should not become a place for political posts, nor even for posting regular news headlines. Yes we know that reddit sucks but stop trying to make hn into reddit. Also the community can't handle it, just look at the handful of comments we already have here.

I believe it is impossible to disentangle non-politics (tech included) from politics because that in itself is a political stance.

When people talk about "politics" they aren't talking about it conceptually. They are talking about the myriad of controversial topics that are fiercely argued about by state political leaders and prominent political parties. But that's a mouthful so we call it "politics".

Using the common meaning of "politics", it's very easy to sort the majority of subjects into "politics" and "non-politics".

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#752

Post by jay-barronville »

gataca wrote: post #731
Qem wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They claimed that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people The claims appear to be founded: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...

Even Human Rights Watch (anti-israel propaganda outlet at this point) has said it was a Palestinian rocket: "However, the sound preceding the explosion, the fireball that accompanied it, the size of the resulting crater, the type of splatter adjoining it, and the type and pattern of fragmentation visible around the crater are all consistent with the impact of a rocket. Evidence available to Human Rights Watch makes t…

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#753

Post by modriano »

reducesuffering wrote: post #642
prmoustache wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the responsibility is always on who is shooting at civilians. If you can't beat the Hamas in Gaza without shooting civilians, don't shoot, retreat in Israel and focus on protecting Israel.

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Um, the things Israel has done to Palestinian citizens in Gaza over the past 15 years (e.g. [0] - [3]) have been pretty horrific, as are the things Hamas has done to Israeli citizens. This situation didn't randomly start on October 7, 2023.

[0] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2015/06/un-gaza-inqu...

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/13/israel-apparent-war-crim...

[2] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2009/10/un-fact-find...

[3] https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unla...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#754

Post by incognos »

bawolff wrote: post #627
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas Israel really doesn't want Gaza. Like, if Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip/west bank, then why hasn't there been a two state solution? > The UK was always Northern Ireland's government and controlled all state functions. This is 100% not true, Ulster (the majority of which is in Northern Ireland) was historically the part of Ireland that resisted British/English invasions the most, such that the British b…

> Like, if Israel doesn't want the Gaza strip/west bank, then why hasn't there been a two state solution? My understanding is support for a 2 state solution is relatively low on both sides. Especially now that things have deteriorated, but even before oct 7 it seemed unlikely. Even if Israel doesn't want Gaza, they still have an interest in not getting shot at. I don't think they believe that they would be safe from…

How about some history, let's go back to 1993 and the Clinton presidency. There was a nice little deal called the Oslo Accords. Not the best deal for the Palestinians, but it created a lasting peace and established a Palestinian state.

Israel has never lived up to their side of the agreement. How do you expect anyone to trust them at this point. So yes, confidence is low and will continue to be low as long as Israel is not beholden to international law and continues to be protected by the USA.

There are many murmurs that Netanyahu orchestrated the death of the accords starting with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Yitzhak_Rabin

- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#755

Post by incognos »

jdietrich wrote: post #583
tsimionescu wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually have very clear examples from history of how to turn an enemy into a friend: the Marshall plan and the similar levels of aid that the USA poured into post-nazi Germany, post-fascist Italy, post-imperial Japan. That turned War-torn bitter enemies into some of the staunchest US allies today. Given Israel's position of power, they can and should be doing this. However, Israeli politicians just don't want thi…

Germany, Italy and Japan unconditionally surrendered. The Marshall Plan didn't create peace, it rebuilt societies once peace had been established. Do we imagine that Germany would have agreed to peace in 1944 or 1939 if only the Allies had given enough aid?

For the record, Germany just finished paying off war reparations from WWII. 92 years later.

-https://www.history.com/news/germany-world-war-i-debt-treaty...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#756

Post by bennyz »

hef19898 wrote: post #742
bennyz wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police brutality isn't something specific to this region (IDF is policing in the west bank), or to Palestinians in the region. Hamas murdered and kidnapped hundreds of civilians to protest this? I think it's pretty clear that Hamas would prioritize the release of a high ranking terrorist with civilian blood on their hands over someone that may be wrongfully detained.

Yes, Hamas attacked, killed and kidnapped people in a terror attack to protest this. Also to have hostages to exchange for some of their own. And yes, these "own" are Hamas members and not the innocent bystanders. Was there ever any doubt about this? None of that justifies, again, the levelling of Gaza, the starving of around 500,000 people and the deliberate targeting of civilians who have nothing to do with any of…

>You what works? Identifying the purpetrators, prosecuting and convicting them. If you want to go ultra tough, use Mossad to go after Hamas leadership. Heck, even using precision strikes at Hamas leadership in Gaza wouod be better, regardless of the related colleteral damage and casualties. Israel is not doing any of that

ah, yes, it's that simple, just press the magic button that makes all Hamas disappear and all uninvolved civilians live well and prosper...

To me it seems that if those who care about innocent civilians were more focused on demanding Hamas to surrender and release the hostages promptly would be do more to save lives than constantly criticizing Israel, which gives Hamas hope they can survive this (and do what they did again later on)

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#757

Post by YavuzKrgl »

gryzzly wrote: post #670
GordonS wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that and the fact over 500 Israeli soldiers were killed by Hamas in Gaza so far Israel are the occupying, attacking force, and have massacred thousands of civilians. You want me to care about war criminals, who routinely broadcast their depraved attrocities on TikTok? Come on now.

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Israel is not defending itself. They are actively murdering civilians to the point you can claim it as genocide. [0] Hamas did not killed those civilians it was Israel who killed them.[1] Israel dehumanized Palestinians[2][3]. He is not a Jew hater, you are accusing him of something he is not and trying to deny the reality of the atrocities committed by Israel. As for all Jews, yes, they are all the same. If the Jews didn't have someone at the head of the Jews who was dedicated to building Solomon's temple by committing this atrocity, the Jews wouldn't have the courage to act.

[0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-ham...

[1] https://www.liberationnews.org/evidence-shows-israel-killed-...

[2] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17117377126238824...

[3] https://www.liberationnews.org/israel-calls-palestinians-hum...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#758

Post by coopierez »

brink wrote: post #242
pests wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An elevated civilian death count, including journalists is to be expected. Is it???

Yes? Use your basic reasoning. Hamas fights in civilian clothing, they hide in civilian buildings, they hide in hospitals. They use regular civilians as shields. This is not your average fight; Hamas hates their enemy more than they love their own country.

Here is a Palestinian being used as a human shield by an Israeli solider: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-i...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#759

Post by gizmo »

rbanffy wrote: post #713
incognos wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Hamas's charter states that it's issue is with the Zionist Project and not Jews. They specifically speak about coexistence, albeit in a single entity called Palestine. There is not language to exclude other ethnicities or religions, only to remove the colonialist movement referred to as Zionism - which is not Judaism.

> FWIW, Hamas's charter states that it's issue is with the Zionist Project and not Jews. Oh yes! Still, that's an untenable position. Israel was created so that all Jews could have a state of their own because of the suffering inflicted upon them. There really is no going back on that. For me, a single democratic and secular state, with a legal framework that protects everybody's rights equally and fairly would be th…

The status quo is already effectively a single-state solution. Israel is the only party with an army, the only party that can elect politicians, the only party with airports and a harbor, and a functioning economy. Israel also has almost total control over Golan, West Bank and Gaza. Why would Israel award citizenship and the right to vote to the oppressed minority?

If the majority between the river and the sea wanted a pluralistic, democratic and secular state it would have happened a long time ago. The status quo is what the people of Israel want (revealed preference by their votes). And Palestinians don't get a vote.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#760

Post by madsmith »

incognos wrote: post #710
bawolff wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prior to making unfounded statements, might I suggest you become informed? > Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948 Perhaps you should check your dates before calling people misinformed. Gaza was occupied by Egypt until 1967.

For the record, you do not have to occupy 100% to be an occupier. If you push the current residents out of their own homes and lands and occupy said land, you are an occupier regardless of the amount of land you occupy. The fact still stands, Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948. Also a fact, Israel invented terrorism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing )

Just leaving this here without making simplistic claims of what constitutes a fact.

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism)

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