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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#751

Post by fortran77 »

pton_xd wrote: post #442
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #216

How much of this do they do to their search results?

Google "white family" and count how many non-white families show up in the image results. 8 out of the first 32 images didn't match, for me. Now, sometimes showing you things slightly outside of your intended search window can be helpful; maybe you didn't really know what you were searching for, right? Whose to say a nudge in a certain direction is a bad thing. Extrapolate to every sensitive topic. EDIT: for complete…

google image search "Chief Diversity Officer" and you'll see an extremely un-diverse group of people.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#752

Post by nojvek »

lol! midjourney had a big issue where it couldn't generate rich black people donating food to white people. old midjourney couldn't generate certain proffesions like doctors as black. They were all mostly white.

Now Google has the opposite problem.

The irony of that makes me chuckle.

The latest Midjourney is very thirsty. You ask it to generate spiderwoman and it's a half naked woman with a spider suit bikini.

Whenever AI grows up and understands reality without being fine tuned, it will chuckle at the fine tuning data.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#753

Post by gedy »

duxup wrote: post #694
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

> How is it that this was somehow approved?

If the tweets can be believed, Gemini's product lead (Jack Krawzczyk) is very, shall we say, "passionate" about this type of social justice belief. So would not be a surprise if he's in charge of this.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#754

Post by prepend »

UomoNeroNero wrote: post #728

I'm really tired of all this controversy and what the tech scene is becoming. I'm old and I'm speaking like an old man: there wouldn't be the internet as it is now, with everything we now use and enjoy if there hadn't been times of true freedom, of anarchic madness, of hate and love. Personally I HATE that 95% of people focus on this bullshit when we are witnessing one of the most incredible revolutions in the histor…

It all seems like bikeshedding.

Optimistically I could think it’s because all the hard stuff is solved so we argue over things that don’t matter.

Cynically I could think that arguing over this stuff makes it so we never have to test for competence. So dumb people can argue over opinions instead of building things. If they argue then they never get tested and fired. If they build, their thing gets tested and fails and they are fired.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#755

Post by boppo1 »

vidarh wrote: post #432
jack_riminton wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of when black people in the UK get called African American by Americans. No they're neither African nor American It's an incredibly self-centered view of the world

My black African ex once chewed out an American who not only called her African American but "corrected her" after she referred to herself as black, in a very clear British received pronunciation accent that has no hint of American to it, by insisting it was "African American". And not while in the US either - but in the UK.

Do b/Black people in the UK care about capitalization?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#756

Post by arp242 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #731
esoterica wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Antman, Indiana Jones, Wish, all had white main characters, DEI doesn't just affect main characters. See who were tasked to write and direct those movies and the DEI agendas they're forced to push. Clueless people with other flops under their belt, who got the projects out of DEI so Disney can look inclusive on social media. And speaking of Indiana Jones, that flopped because they shoved a strong independent Girl Bo…

Hollywood milking things for so long that the entire thing resembles anaemic dogshit is as old as Hollywood. Big budget films with stupid stuff because tons of people are involved is also as old as Hollywood. Dune, Alien >=3, Æon Flux, etc. etc.

Sometimes a bad film is just a bad film for all the reasons bad films have been around for 100 years, and that's it. This entire "zomg bad film + female character = woke mind virus!!11" is just silly.

Also Harrison Ford is 81. He's old. Almost old enough to run for presidency. It's physically impossible to make films with Indie like it's 1982. They tried that with Robert DeNiro and unintentional comedy ensued.

Oh, and I heard all of this bollocks with Mad Max too, and that did well enough. Again, sometimes a bad film is just a bad film.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#757

Post by dekhn »

JohnMakin wrote: post #742
multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

I'm sure people with this take will be totally happy at the "historically accurate" pictures of Jesus then (he would not have been white and blue eyed)

I would absolutely love if image generators produced more historically accurate pictures of jesus. That would generate a really lovely news cycle and maybe would even nudge modern representations to be a bit more realistic.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#758

Post by kragen »

mrtksn wrote: post #4

For context: There was an outcry in social media after Gemini refused to generate images of white people, leading deeply inaccurate in historic sense images being generated. Though the issue might be more nuanced than the mainstream narrative, it had some hilarious examples. Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Here are some popular examples: https://dropover.cloud/7fd7ba

these are pretty badass as images i think; it's only the context that makes them bad

the viking ones might even be historically accurate (if biased); not only did vikings recruit new warriors from abroad, they also enslaved concubines from abroad, and their raiding reached not only greenland (inhabited by inuit peoples) and north america (rarely!) but also the mediterranean. so it wouldn't be terribly surprising for a viking warrior a thousand years ago to have a great-grandmother who was kidnapped or bought from morocco, greenland, al-andalus, or baghdad. and of course many sami are olive-skinned, and viking contact with sami was continuous

the vitamin-d-deprived winters of scandinavia are not kind to dark-skinned people (how do the inuit do it? perhaps their diet has enough vitamin d even without sun?), but those genes won't die out in a generation or two, even if 50 generations later there isn't much melanin left

a recent paper on this topic with disappointingly sketchy results is https://www.duo.uio.no/handle/10852/83989

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#759

Post by sotasota »

duxup wrote: post #694
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

If you ever wondered what it was like to live during the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, well, we are living in the Western version of that right now. You don't speak out during the revolution for fear of being ostracized, fired, and forced into a struggle session where your character and reputation is publicly destroyed to send a clear message to everyone else.

Shut Up Or Else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Cham...

Historians might mark 2017 as the official date Google was captured.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#760

Post by politician »

mort96 wrote: post #708
verisimi wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Marxism" isn't responsible for bias in training sets, no.

There are 3 parts to the LLM, not 2: the training set, the RLHF biasing process, and the prompt (incl. injections or edits).

The first two steps happen ahead of time and are frequently misunderstood as being the same thing or essentially having the same nature. The last happens at runtime.

The training set is a data collection challenge. Biasing through training data is hard because you need so much of it for a good result.

Reinforcement learning with human feedback is simply clown alchemy. It is not a science like chemistry. There are no fundamental principles guiding the feedback of the humans — if they even use humans anymore (this feedback can itself be generated). The feedback cannot be measured and added in fractions. It is not reproducible and is ungovernable. It is the perfect place to inject the deep biasing.

Prompt manipulation, in contrast, is a brute force tool lacking all subtlety — that doesn’t make it ineffective! It’s a solution used to communicate that a mandate has definitely been implemented and can be “verified” by toggling whether it’s applied or not.

It’s not possible to definitively say whether Marxism has had an effect in the RLHF step.

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