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OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

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Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#751

Post by bart_spoon »

jacquesm wrote: post #341
boh wrote: post #312

There can exist an inherent delusion within elements of a company, that if left unchallenged, can persist. An agreement for instance, can seem airtight because it's never challenged, but falls apart in court. The OpenAI fallacy was that non-profit principals were guiding the success of the firm, and when the board decided to test that theory, it broke the whole delusion. Had it not fully challenged Altman, the board…

Yes, indeed and that's the real loss here: any chance of governing this properly got blown up by incompetence.

Was it due to incompetence though? The way it has played out has made me feel it was always doomed. It is apparent that those concerned with AI safety were gravely concerned with the direction the company was taking, and were losing power rapidly. This move by the board may have simply done in one weekend what was going to happen anyways over the coming months/years anyways.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#752

Post by nvm0n2 »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman.

Maybe because the alternative is being led by lunatics who think like this:

You also informed the leadership team that allowing the company to be destroyed “would be consistent with the mission.”

to which the only possible reaction is

What

The

Fuck?

That right there is what happens when you let "AI ethics" people get control of something. Why would anyone work for people who believe that OpenAI's mission is consistent with self-destruction? This is a comic book super-villain style of "ethics", one in which you conclude the village had to be destroyed in order to save it.

If you are a normal person, you want to work for people who think that your daily office output is actually pretty cool, not something that's going to destroy the world. A lot of people have asked what Altman was doing there and why people there are so loyal to him. It's obvious now that Altman's primary role at OpenAI was to be a normal leader that isn't in the grip of the EA Basilisk cult.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#753

Post by imjonse »

ta1243 wrote: post #717
mcny wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. I have no inside information. I don't know anyone at Open AI. This is all purely speculation. Now that that's out out the way, here is my guess: money. These people never joined OpenAI to "advance sciences and arts" or to "change the world". They joined OpenAI to earn money. They think they can make more money with Sam Altman in…

> These people never joined OpenAI to "advance sciences and arts" or to "change the world". They joined OpenAI to earn money Getting Cochrane vibes from Star Trek there. > COCHRANE: You wanna know what my vision is? ...Dollar signs! Money! I didn't build this ship to usher in a new era for humanity. You think I wanna go to the stars? I don't even like to fly. I take trains. I built this ship so that I could retire to…

There are non-negligible chances that history will be written by Sam Altman and his GPT minions, so he'll probably be viewed favorably.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#754

Post by alephnerd »

kashyapc wrote: post #689

Silicon Valley outsider here. Am I being harsh here? I just bothered to look at the full OpenAI board composition. Besides Ilya Sutskever and Greg Brockman, why are these people eligible to be on the OpenAI board? Such young people, calling themselves "President of this", "Director of that". - Adam D'Angelo — Quora CEO (no clue what he's doing on OpenAI board) - Tasha McCauley — a "management scientist" (this is a ne…

Adam D'Angelo was brought in as a friend because Sam Altman lead Quora's Series D around the time OpenAI was founded, and he is a board member on Dustin Moskovitz's Asana.

Dustin Moskovitz isn't on the board but gave OpenAI the $30M in funding via his non-profit Open Philantopy [0]

Tasha McCauley was probably brought in due to the Singularity University/Kurziwel types who were at OpenAI in the beginning. She was also in the Open Philanthropy space.

Helen Toner was probably brought in due to her past work at Open Philanthropy - a Dustin Moskovitz funded non-profit working on building OpenAI type initiatives, and was also close to Sam Altman. They also gave OpenAI the initial $30M [0]

Essentially, this is a Donor versus Investor battle. The donors aren't gunna make money of OpenAI's commercial endeavors that began in 2019.

It's similar to Elon Musk's annoyance at OpenAI going commercial even though he donated millions.

[0] - https://www.openphilanthropy.org/grants/openai-general-suppo...

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#755

Post by creer »

JeremyNT wrote: post #464
joshstrange wrote: post #308

Well I give up. I think everyone is a "loser" in the current situation. With Ilya signing this I have literally no clue what to believe anymore. I was willing to give the board the benefit of the doubt since I figured non-profit > profit in terms of standing on principal but this timeline is so screwy I'm done. Ilya votes for and stands behind decision to remove Altman, Altman goes to MS, other employees want him bac…

There's no way to read any of this other than that the entire operation is a clown show. All respect to the engineers and their technical abilities, but this organization has demonstrated such a level of dysfunction that there can't be any path back for it. Say MS gets what it wants out of this move, what purpose is there in keeping OpenAI around? Wouldn't they be better off just hiring everybody? Is it just some kin…

> what purpose is there in keeping OpenAI around?

Two projects rather than one. At a moderate price. Both serving MSFT. Less risk for MSFT.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#756

Post by barryrandall »

ninepoints wrote: post #685
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

Imagine putting all your energy behind the person who thinks worldcoin is a good idea...

That's a pretty solid no-confidence vote in the board and their preferred direction.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#757

Post by SoftTalker »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #648
bnralt wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now the cat is out of the bag, and people no longer believe that a non-profit who can act at will is a trusted vehicle for the future. And maybe it’s not. The big mistake people make is hearing non-profit and think it means there’s a greater amount of morality. It’s the same mistake as assuming everyone who is religious is therefore more moral (worth pointing out that religions are nonprofits as well). Most hospita…

I've worked with a lot of non-profits, especially with the upper management. Based on this experience I am mostly convinced that people being motivated by a desire for making money results in far better outcomes/working environment/decision-making than people being motivated by ego, power, and social status, which is basically always what you eventually end up with in any non-profit.

The bottom line doesn't lie or kiss ass.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#759

Post by PKop »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

The workforce prefers the commericialization/acceleration path, not the "muh safetyism" and over-emphasis on moralism of the non-profit contingent.

They want to develop powerful shit and do it at an accelerated pace, and make money in the process not be hamstrung by busy-bodies.

The "effective altruism" types give people the creeps. It's not confusing at all why they would oppose this faction.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#760

Post by bredren »

JeremyNT wrote: post #464
joshstrange wrote: post #308

Well I give up. I think everyone is a "loser" in the current situation. With Ilya signing this I have literally no clue what to believe anymore. I was willing to give the board the benefit of the doubt since I figured non-profit > profit in terms of standing on principal but this timeline is so screwy I'm done. Ilya votes for and stands behind decision to remove Altman, Altman goes to MS, other employees want him bac…

There's no way to read any of this other than that the entire operation is a clown show. All respect to the engineers and their technical abilities, but this organization has demonstrated such a level of dysfunction that there can't be any path back for it. Say MS gets what it wants out of this move, what purpose is there in keeping OpenAI around? Wouldn't they be better off just hiring everybody? Is it just some kin…

There's a path back from this disfunction but my sense before this new twist was that the drama had severely impacted OpenAI as an industry leader. The product and talent positioning seemed ahead by years only to get destroyed by unforced errors.

This instability can only mean the industry as a whole will move forward faster. Competitors see the weakness and will push harder.

OpenAI will have a harder time keeping secret sauces from leaking out, and just productivity must be in nose dive.

A terrible mess.

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