Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#751

Post by averageRoyalty » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

dakial1 wrote: post #688

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #481

Bank of america did this to me, in the same weekend i was moving out. All my stuff was in the car, it was a friday at 3PM and i was in the gas station. I couldn't fill up my gas. Called and they told me to come to the bank with two forms of ID. When I arrived to the bank the fraud department was operating in NY (3hrs ahead) and they were closing, so they told me to come next tuesday (it was a long weekend). I went ho…

I never understood this "Anything goes Term & Conditions" in the US. Like, can a bank legally put that they can close account without notification in their T&C? Isn't there a regulator that would control these and fine the banks? The binding arbitration clause (or privatized justice system) is another thing that I can't believe the US population never rebelled against...

Have you reviewed your banks T&Cs?

This happened to me a decade ago (not in the US), and I was surprised to find that every bank in the country had similar provisions in place. I'd be surprised if yours doesn't too.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#752

Post by jancsika » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

jdiff wrote: post #575

jancsika wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely has uses cases. E.g., use it to donate to sci-hub, ... ... It definitely has a use case.

Even that. If it can be done better and easier without crypto, I don't consider it a use case.

How do you donate money to sci-hub without crypto?

I mean, I'd love to change my snarky one-element list to a zero-element list!

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#753

Post by averageRoyalty » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

> Instead, a vast security apparatus has kicked into gear, starting with regulators in Washington and trickling down to bank security managers and branch staff eyeballing customers.

Despite the article and the comments, this isn't an American thing. There are stories on line that are near identical to these from all over the world.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#754

Post by krupan » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #471

krupan wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the linked article, "James Zhong committed wire fraud over a decade ago" He definitely wasn't using Schnorr signatures 10 years ago.

He was caught based on recent transactions.

Ok, first off, let's take a step back here. We are discussing a solution to this unbanking problem, but you and I have gotten off into the weeds a little about hiding actual criminal activity. Bitcoin is not 100% private, but it did take 10 years and this guy inviting the police into his home where they found his physical bitcoin wallets in order for him to get caught. That only supports the point I'm making that Bitcoin anonymity, though not perfect, is still pretty damn good. Good enough to fix this current unbanking problem.

Bitcoin is not magical and perfect, trade-offs have to be made in any endeavor. I personally think the ones Bitcoin has made are good ones. Maybe you still disagree.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#755

Post by Tao3300 » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #714

Tao3300 wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear that. Notice I said > rule of thumb Not to be confused with a universal law. See also that the other comments pointed out that the USDC recommendation didn't even make a whole lot of sense. Hmm...

My point is even as a rule of thumb it doesn't make sense. You might as well just say that mentioning crypto at all is a red flag and call it a day.

Whoa. You guessed my other rule!

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#756

Post by aaron_m04 » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:55 PM UTC

ta1243 wrote: post #556

fsflover wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't solve the OP's problem.

$200 emergency cash would have allowed him to fill up with gas, and pay for a motel or wherever he was going over the weekend. Having multiple cards would too (I have a debit card and two credit cards, kept at home, but I don't want to be stuck with no money if my wallet/phone gets stolen) I have no idea why a university which had received multiple on time payments would suddenly drop someone off the role for paying…

Can you even stay at a motel with only cash these days?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#757

Post by krupan » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 4:56 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #648

krupan wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are overstating how easy it is to track and how hard it is manage multiple addresses. As more addresses are used it gets harder and harder to track. Your employer will not have the resources to do it. Hierarchical wallets make it really easy to use and keep track of multiple addresses today, and more privacy schemes are in progress, see: https://river.com/learn/what-are-schnorr-signatures/ It's true that it is no…

> As more addresses are used it gets harder and harder to track. Your employer will not have the resources to do it. First, following a chain is not as hard as you’re making out and there are existing companies which provide that service, which they’d pay just like they do credit reporting agencies - made easier by the fact that they’d be providing most of your income so it’d be starting with a known point. Mixers ca…

Yes, following the chain of addresses is pretty easy, but proving who owns which address is not.

Using the new tech like Schnorr signatures is not "a complicated setup" that "has to be maintained perfectly." It is (or will be soon) built-in to the wallet software. You won't have to think about it. Maybe you read a lot about early Bitcoin wallets that didn't even provide unique addresses for each transaction (was that ever even a thing?) but times have changed. The ecosystem just gets better and better.

Also, did you read the article I linked to? In another thread I provided some more explanation and links:

All the chain analysis you have heard of is based on likely patterns and typical behavior of address use in common Bitcoin wallet software. New signature and script schemes have been added to Bitcoin in the past several years that disrupt those patterns and make it even harder to find connections between addresses.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#758

Post by krupan » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #648

krupan wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are overstating how easy it is to track and how hard it is manage multiple addresses. As more addresses are used it gets harder and harder to track. Your employer will not have the resources to do it. Hierarchical wallets make it really easy to use and keep track of multiple addresses today, and more privacy schemes are in progress, see: https://river.com/learn/what-are-schnorr-signatures/ It's true that it is no…

> As more addresses are used it gets harder and harder to track. Your employer will not have the resources to do it. First, following a chain is not as hard as you’re making out and there are existing companies which provide that service, which they’d pay just like they do credit reporting agencies - made easier by the fact that they’d be providing most of your income so it’d be starting with a known point. Mixers ca…

And sorry, I know I should but I can't just let this go. You keep comparing Bitcoin to cash, as if cash is the solution to the unbanking problem we are talking about. You say this about Bitcoin vs. cash:

“Harder to use, costs more, still less secure than cash!”

None of those are absolutely true. For a local transaction in small amounts, yes, cash is easier and cheaper. For large transactions or for transactions with someone who is geographically far away, cash loses on all three of those, big time. I don't even need to explain why do I?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#759

Post by fencepost » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

raincom wrote: post #482

mindslight wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should get an attorney if they desire legal representation, period. Otherwise it's quite perverse to be contributing to one of the main guilds facilitating this cesspool of overregulation, just in the hopes that their social status is going to make a bank think twice. And also attorneys aren't immune from this. In fact, one reason to actually get an attorney is that you want to launder some money. Also, business…

Lawyers are not of much help when it comes to reopening already-closed accounts. Most of the time, banks will send a cashier check for whatever money left, if they close accounts abruptly. Sometimes, they give a month to move funds elsewhere. When a bank closes an account for that last check which they find suspicious--subsequently cleared by the payee bank, that's when banks give a run around. File a complaint with…

I wouldn't expect them to help with reopening, but if a bank is investigating an unexpected large deposit and determines that "Oh, it's coming from a law firm's escrow account" it gives at least one obvious possible explanation - and may also indicate to investigators that the account holder is someone with legal representation so don't be sloppy.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#760

Post by vikingerik » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

Quindecillion wrote: post #608

fragmede wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A crypto currency pegged to the dollar won't "go to the moon". If you're looking for that, there's USDT. Unfortunately, when trying to pick a coin, it's like trying to choose the best programming language. Each coin has its own ins and outs, there isn't one that is the best. They have their own time and place. A lot of people see this and want to use them in inappropriate places, but doesn't mean there aren't appropr…

> Each coin has its own ins and outs, there isn't one that is the best. They have their own time and place. This is just wishy washy rubbish trying to appear "diplomatic" and "balanced". Oh sure, you can mint some monkey jpegs or construct a needlessly complex and public smart contract for some esoteric "use case", but the truth is the majority of people in the world don't want or need those things. People just want…

> that no one can stop

People don't want that. They do want their financial transactions to be stopped and reversed in the event of theft, fraud, merchant error, defective goods, unprovided services, etc. That's why Bitcoin and the other cryptos haven't caught on universally, there's no recourse when something goes wrong. (Really, Bitcoin just defines any redress as out of scope.)