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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#751

Post by ajsnigrutin »

kevincox wrote: post #741
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they sell you a car with heated seats, you should have heated seats. They already sold you the heated seats, you already have the heated seats, and they just want more money for something they already got money for, and you already have.

But they didn't get money for it. They get money for it from the people who enable it. If they didn't get money from people paying for it the effective cost of manufacturing the car they sold you would go up (and they may need to raise the price they charged you to cover it). Imagine that 1/2 of the owners want heated seats. It is more cost effective to just install the hardware in every car rather than creating a ne…

If their business model is broken, it's their problem.

You bought a car, paid for the car, and that car has heated seats. Now they want more money for using hardware you already bought, paid for and received.

I would understand if they had recurring costs with your heated seats (like they do with eg. a music streaming service or something like that), but nope, they sold you the hardware and now are blackmailing you for more money to use something you already own.

Not adding heated seats does not mean a different production line, just one skipped step for the seats without heating, and this was done on every car before they started with this subscripton and "pay extra" crap. This would also reduce e-waste for those who do not want and/or need heated seats.

Do you really want to live in a world, where you have to pay extra to use something you already bought?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#752

Post by kevincox »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #751
kevincox wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they didn't get money for it. They get money for it from the people who enable it. If they didn't get money from people paying for it the effective cost of manufacturing the car they sold you would go up (and they may need to raise the price they charged you to cover it). Imagine that 1/2 of the owners want heated seats. It is more cost effective to just install the hardware in every car rather than creating a ne…

If their business model is broken, it's their problem. You bought a car, paid for the car, and that car has heated seats. Now they want more money for using hardware you already bought, paid for and received. I would understand if they had recurring costs with your heated seats (like they do with eg. a music streaming service or something like that), but nope, they sold you the hardware and now are blackmailing you f…

You paid for a car with non-functional heated seats. You got a car with non-functional heated seats.

I agree that if people figure out how to easily enable those seats they have a problem. Because now they are getting less payment for those seats (as some people are using them without paying). But that doesn't make it wrong to sell you a car with non-functional heated seat hardware.

> blackmailing you

They aren't blackmailing you. There is no threat. They are making you an offer. They can turn your disabled heated seats into functioning heated seats.

Skipping a step effectively creates a different production line. Now you need to track these inventories separately, ensure stock of each, schedule the production and ensure that various stockpiles around the world have each model. There are very significant cost there. It is entirely possible that this complexity and cost results in more e-waste. But it definitely increases cost.

> where you have to pay extra to use something you already bought?

But you didn't buy it. You bought a car without heated seats. (or with disabled heated seats if you prefer). You got exactly what you were promised and what you agreed to pay for.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#753

Post by froggit »

xattt wrote: post #616
pests wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gait detection renders any of this obsolute sadly.

A third pant leg sown on one side with a rock on the bottom will (probably) throw off some algos.

And set off hella red flags for everything else (probably wouldn't be too much of a problem if you just say "it's to foil gait detection" when you get interrogated about your third leg. people tend to be cool with all kinds of weird shit as long as it's for a reason). Could maybe work if gait detection is the only adversary in your life for sure.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#754

Post by jeffreyq »

userbinator wrote: post #641
ulamel wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

big tech is trying to erase this concept from the consumer mind. Assuming someone tried to do everything legally (not pirating) when was the last time anyone "owned" anything. Music, Movies, TV shows, Software, you don't own any of it you are simply paying for server space.

Not just big tech; there's a reason why "you will own nothing and be happy" is a thing.

Interesting quote. I just came across the exact quote reading the latest of "The Upheaval" by N.S. Lyon

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#755

Post by froggit »

b112 wrote: post #706
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily my gait is not in an adtech company's database and sold to the government, like my face probably is.

How do you know? ID phone Bluetooth on passing, or even facial rec, then it gets tied to gait, and it's forever tied.

Just keep your phone down in your third pant leg instead of using a rock.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#756

Post by bri3d »

hunter2_ wrote: post #670
bri3d wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has already been the case on European navigation systems (Audi and VW MMI/MIB) for many years now. VW Audi Group developed an entire infrastructure called SWaP (Software as a Product) and FEC (Feature Enable Codes) many years ago, and ever since, there has been a cottage industry in bypassing the system to enable features like CarPlay, Navigation, and Performance Monitor which are usually locked by software trim…

It's always awesome seeing your comments about VW stuff. I've been using VCDS over 10 years now with nothing but various trims of Golfs for even longer than that. Luckily my Mk7 R came with all the FECs I'd ever want, stock! The secret menu doesn't show anything interesting in the diff between supported and installed. Do you think there will ever be ECU/TCU tunes maintained as open source projects? Maybe not quite as…

All of the tools needed to do this are already there. However, maintaining this kind of project would be a thankless task riddled with bad users, regulatory/legal issues, and isn't likely to build a strong community for various reasons, so I don't think anyone has been highly incentivized to do it.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#757

Post by throwaway894589 »

progman32 wrote: post #638
mgiampapa wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like we used to have cable box guys willing to sell you an unlocked box for premium channels, we are eventually going to have feature unlock guys that you go do and for a small fee perform some slightly more technical hack to enable features that are already there.

I unlocked a whole extra gallon on my i3's fuel tank (just about doubling its capacity) just by poking it with a computer, there's definitely people around willing to pay for this service.

This is because if the gas range was longer than the EV range it wouldn't qualify for the US federal EV tax rebate so BMW software limited the range. In europe it's not limited.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#758

Post by myself248 »

filoleg wrote: post #676
myself248 wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day we used to just call those "standard features" and every car had them.

Heated seats were a "standard feature" and every single car had them? I guess maybe, if you drove porsches and higher trim Mercedes cars 20 years ago (or any comparable luxury vehicles). Otherwise, I can totally assure you they were not "standard features", and they didn't even exist for most car models, regardless of the trim. Or maybe your definition of "older" vehicles means those that were produced in the past 5-…

Not heated seats specifically, but any "option" that was cheaper to include than not. That's the definition of a standard feature, where it's just built into every car.

Power windows were originally an expensive option, but they got cheaper, and the fraction of cars ordered with manual crank windows dwindled, to that point that power windows are simply standard on most cars now.

If somebody said, okay every car has power windows but yours don't work unless you pay a monthly fee, I'd break out the wire cutters right in the dealer lot and fix the problem myself. Screw that. It's a standard feature and someone broke it, I'm fixing it.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#759

Post by jabradoodle »

omginternets wrote: post #750
jabradoodle wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends what you are modifying. By all means have a custom entertainment system and I detest the software locked features such as heated seats. If you are messing with safety critical software then it is no help to me that you are prosecuted for negligence if I am killed. Even if your safety critical software works it still is negligent, there should be some barrier to entry for such software. It shouldn't…

Do you think you should be allowed to change your brake pads? How about bleed your brake lines?

Yes, I would trust people to generally be competent enough.

Writing your own self driving software, go ahead, as long as your driving on private land I have no issue.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#760

Post by babypuncher »

denlekke wrote: post #37
babypuncher wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my attitude: The consumer should have complete control over any hardware and software in any product they buy. If a manufacturer wants to lock features behind a paywall, that is fine. However, they shouldn't be allowed to complain when consumers modify the thing they bought to get around that paywall. If Tesla really wants to make sure absolutely no one gets FSD or heated seats without paying, then they should…

in general you would think this is just a DRM race then between tesla and unlockers. however, with so many of tesla's features existing outside the car, tesla has a lot of leverage. a music cd or blu ray is generally finished content. a tesla is constantly getting software patches and most owners use the app which i'm sure is going through teslas servers is it reasonable for tesla to lock you out of the app or softwa…

They can void the warranty, as long as they can prove that my modifications are what actually caused the malfunction I am making a warranty claim on.
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