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I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

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Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#751

Post by __pache__ »

HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

??? What else can we do, save for reward merit and performance? Sorry technology made the horse obsolete, but uh, that's good .. performance goes up, potential to show merit goes up

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#752

Post by satvikpendem »

davidktr wrote: post #747
satvikpendem wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works well for statically typed languages though. I use it for Rust and simply copy paste, allowing the compiler to tell me where it's wrong. For Python or something similar, I wouldn't use it at all.

I do use ChatGPT very often for Python and SQL right now, but you really have to know what you are doing. The errors are sublte but such that the code more often than not would not run.

Yep, so I definitely wouldn't use it for code like that at all. I'd probably just tell it to give me more of an overview of the code.

But know that in the future, ChatGPT will be hooked up to a runtime system and compiler with which it can know how to fix errors itself. In fact, plugins already allow some of this.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#753

Post by alismayilov »

thrownaway561 wrote: post #464

all i can say is that chatgpt4 has become a life saver for me. i've moved from programming to sales and project management. it used to take me a ton of time in order to do proposals. now i fire up chatgpt4 and just prompt it for what i need. i can reprompt it to elaborate on each section of the proposal if i want. i can now do proposals within minutes and have a library to stich together. the hardest part of sales is…

If all your competitors will do the same what will be your competitive advantages?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#754

Post by saurik »

koch wrote: post #663
hnfong wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you in principle, but it’s not a given that you can find meaning outside of the job market if the market doesn’t find your labor valuable. What if nobody actually wants your “help”? What if your labor is not only worthless in the job market, but also in general, where people prefer assistance from AI instead of from a live human person? What if no matter what you do, some AI does it better? How…

I'm so disappointed in the other replies to this comment. > Don't worry about it, there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done > pretty far off > chess grandmasters are ok We are on an exponential curve of being able to create agents on demand that can essentially act in human ways, at least digitally/online. If you're working on a computer (aka all white collar jobs or anything that can be done remotely), it will so…

I mean, that isn't a "what ever will happen to my job?" level of concern, that's more "will society handle transitioning to a post-job reality once everyone is useless without revolving into a war" or "maybe humanity will cease to be relevant and we'll all get killed by the computer we design", which is a fundamentally different level of problem, right? Like, the last thing I am going to be concerned about is my silly job in the future you are positing where all white collar jobs are replaced, as to be quite frank about it: my job as a low-level software developer is harder to replace than the jobs of the people who hired me or the people who hired them or the people who invested in their company to begin with... once the computer flips from the regime of being worse than a human and yet helpful to them into a theoretical one where it is better than a human, I think the answer is going to very rapidly change from "maybe you should just consider it to be helpful!" to "maybe that will be the end of human civilization" with very very little in between.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#755

Post by __pache__ »

cambaceres wrote: post #749
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

[flagged]

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#756

Post by simonh »

HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

The fact that anyone today thinks that any other economic system we’ve ever tried is any better than the one we have is a damning indictment of our education system.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#757

Post by dns_snek »

ilaksh wrote: post #735
dns_snek wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as we lower that bar, the value a computer programmer has may begin to diminish. As a developer, I feel like it's the opposite. If anything, it's going to raise the bar by replacing low skilled coders who are only good at cheaply producing piles of future tech debt, GPT4 will do that sort of work for 'free'. On the other hand it's going to empower non-programmers to write or debug low complexity scripts on thei…

Do some more testing. Try putting it in a debug loop. Imagine tooling that has access to the files and a longer context window. If this is truly your judgement then GPT4 already has better reasoning capabilities than you. Imagine improved versions every 3-6 months.

I've done all of those things. It wasn't even operating on code but a problem described in plain English language with clear bullet points describing constraints of the problem. There were no context window limitations at play.

When it broke requirement or constraint "A", I reminded it about it. It apologized and formulated a new "solution" that broke constraint "B", when reminded about that, it apologized again and proceeded to break constraint "A" again.

The conversation went on for 20 odd turns where I tried to iterate and arrive at a solution - a custom algorithm to solve a problem it's likely never encountered before (at least in that form). It wasn't a particularly difficult problem, it just had many logical branches and steps it would have to reason about holistically. Instead it kept breaking one or more requirements that were clearly explained just 1 or 2 turns ago.

Your response is needlessly rude, perhaps the reality is that you haven't pushed it enough to discover severe limitations of GPT's logical reasoning capabilities.

> If this is truly your judgement then GPT4 already has better reasoning capabilities than you.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that someone with poor reasoning capabilities would be easily impressed by something or someone with better reasoning capabilities? ;)

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#758

Post by thefz »

ilyt wrote: post #705
lumb63 wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This problem isn’t specific to AI. Luddites were concerned about machines taking their jobs. Marx recognized the role of “capital” (of which AI is the intellectual type) in suppressing the incomes of the working class relative to the owning class. Both Marx and the Luddites conceived of different solutions. One solution (the Luddite one) is to eschew the technology. If nobody adopts the technology, nobody has to, but…

Tax the corporations more than the people would be a good start. Make profits from savings in manpower go back to the social programs, maybe ven universal basic income.

Banks can evaporate billions and nobody bats an eye. Zero persons responsible, zero persons to prison while the most vulnerable always pay the price for it.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#759

Post by ilaksh »

robomartin wrote: post #484
surgical_fire wrote: post #156

Funny thing - I've been using ChatGPT as a programming assistant. My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. It often generates code that won't compile or won't run correctly, but that sort of goes in the correct direction, enough that I can spot the blunders and refine my questions. Quite often I even learn a few new things when using it to explore libraries and f…

> My experience with it is that the more knowledgeable I am at the domain, the more useful it is. Exactly right. I made this argument in an unrelated thread: I gave an example of testing ChatGPT by asking it to write CRC calculation code in ARM assembler. The code worked. It wasn’t as good as mine (slower, inefficient), yet, as you said, as a starting point, it would have been fine. “This is today, mid 2023. Give it…

But if we find any web page or document that has your knowledge of what makes ARM code fast and feed that into GPT4 (up to say 80kb of assembly with short comments) along with the task then we don't need you to do that anymore.

AI in fact can use any tool, including AI tools, to deliver value in almost any domain.

So the problem with the comments here in this thread is that the obvious conclusion is that we need some kind of basic income as a floor as well as some fundamental adjustment of the system to handle the new realities of AI.

In fact due to the short-sightedness of comments like yours I am tempted to use the AI programming tool I am developing to try to build an ARM assembler expert business and sell it as Robo Martin the Master ARM Assembly Bot.

Since GPT4 can write the code for me, it is possible to launch this business within the next two days.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#760

Post by nikolai_b »

lumb63 wrote: post #685
HyperSane wrote: post #450

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

This problem isn’t specific to AI. Luddites were concerned about machines taking their jobs. Marx recognized the role of “capital” (of which AI is the intellectual type) in suppressing the incomes of the working class relative to the owning class. Both Marx and the Luddites conceived of different solutions. One solution (the Luddite one) is to eschew the technology. If nobody adopts the technology, nobody has to, but…

Eschewing technology is not what the Luddites were initially after. At first they asked for a minimum wage, minimum labour standards and taxes on the new technology to support laid off workers [1]. This was rejected so they tried to protect their wage power by smashing up the machines.

A Luddite response to AI might be to tax the value AI created (Microsoft's profits) and use that to fund minimum wages/retraining. Not sure how that would work when the AI value is in one jurisdiction and job losses in another.

[1] https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-L...

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