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US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

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Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#751
post #304
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather be spied on by a western democracy than China. Our intelligence agencies are out of control but there's still better mechanisms for reigning them in than China.

What mechanisms do you recommend for reining in, say, the NSA or GHCQ? Were either reined in at all after the Snowden leaks, or was it business as usual after things calmed down a bit? I think we have to accept that these intelligence agencies are effectively untouchable and here to stay. With that in mind I think it boils down to: who can do the most harm by spying on you: - a country thousands of miles away which y…

> What mechanisms do you recommend for reining in, say, the NSA or GHCQ?

Democracy. Vote. Free expression. Tell the people what is happening and why privacy is important.

> Were either reined in at all after the Snowden leaks,

Yes.

> or was it business as usual after things calmed down a bit?

No.

> I think we have to accept that these intelligence agencies are effectively untouchable and here to stay.

We do not. They are not. Apathy is toxic. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good to do nothing.

> With that in mind I think it boils down to: who can do the most harm by spying on you: - a country thousands of miles away which you probably have no connection to and don't visit - the country you live in

China is our single greatest geopolitical adversary. Psyops are real. The ability to influence the public opinion of a geopolitical adversary supports the Chinese salami slicer strategy. It’s reinforced by understanding their adversaries electorate.

> I said in another comment but it bears repeating - I don't want anyone spying on me,

Same.

> but I am losing no sleep over Chinese intelligence,

You probably should be.

> I am an extremely uninteresting target for them.

We are all interesting targets. They may not assassinate, extort, or disappear you in the middle of the night but they can change your opinions without you even noticing.

> If a Chinese agent is watching me die repeatedly in Elden Ring, looking at webcam footage of me gawping at my monitor while I scroll HN, or checking the stupid FB messages I send to my friends they'll realise pretty quickly I'm not worth the bandwidth or the storage space.

Why would an individual agent need to look at anything? People aren’t interesting. We’re all basically the same. But if they know you play Elden Ring and browse HN they can tailor an effective message to you and everyone like you.

> A local agency might be interested in those FB messages, especially if I was politically active, vocally against the government and I was trying to organize protests or strike action.

Yes and that’s an illegal abuse of power. One that can be remedied in a court of law.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#752
post #483
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are 'touchable', there is oversight, and their powers are very limited. Give me an example of Americans who have been materially harmed by those agencies? And what was the damage? Have Americans been oppressed, slandered for political gain, wrongly imprisoned, illegally targeted by police because of NSA activity? I think it's doubtful for anything other than a few incidents; the proportionality of these tradeoff…

Wait so you're not against Chinese spying, rather just really pro-US spying? That's ... certainly a position!

Something funny about the people who are less worried about US spying because there is “oversight” and they are ultimately “democratically controlled”: they seem to be the same people who have very high faith in them working correctly and not against them. So they are certainly not going to be the ones who keep them in check.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#753
post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not many people in continental Europe are comfortable with miles, feet and inches. But sailboat length is traditionally measured in feet. Same for aircraft altitude. So sailors and aviators are more likely to use feet (and nautical miles) as measurement.

Nautical miles have nothing to do with imperial units. It's now defined in reference to SI meter, but it originates as 1/60th of a degree of latitude.

> it originates as 1/60th of a degree of latitude.

So ... not even a fixed length but one that varies by latitude

(given the Earth is an oblate spheroid | rotated ellipsoid | flattened sphere)

that's something on the order of 20 metres of sloppiness by my reckoning.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#754
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geologists were able to reduce the search area for the origin of these balloons using the mineral composition of sand in the sand bags. The airforce then bombed hydrogen generating facilities nearby the suspected launch sites. Section offense and defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb

Wow that's really fascinating. I wonder what sorts of properties allow geologists to characterize sand to that level Also wonder how effective it is. Especially nowadays in such an interconnected world where products, and especially sand, could be coming from the opposite side of the globe

"mineral and diatom composition."

Sand with a variety of both of those can look much more varied, under a microscope, than you might imagine.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#755
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much money does the military lose due to the sensitive information being lost. ...probably around zero dollars. It would be different if it was above say active war zone but in this case it is almost as far from potential warzone as possible so probably absolutely nothing.

Julian Assange's argument is that the loss is negative. Revealing secrets obviates the need to pay for secrecy.

That didn't work out very well for him.

More to the point, if one side keeps secrets and another doesn't, the secret keepers have an advantage. Its a Prisoner's Dilemma scenario, where secrecy is defection.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#756
post #692

F-22 entered service 2005 Air to air kills since entered service: 2005-2022: 0 2023: 2

It's like when a lawyer tells the client not to do a 2 billion dollar deal after a 5 minute conversation and charges $1 million for his time. It's not the effort, it's what was avoided. They call it the Department of Defense for a reason.

What was avoided in this case? A balloon isn't much more than a low flying satellite.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot you can learn by floating a slow moving object rigged with antennas over your adversary and then noting which types of radar light you up and from which direction. Especially when you float them over military sites.

I’m sure the US military is smart enough to put their toys away before the balloon they’ve been watching for a week floats overhead.

Hopefully.

But my dad, who worked on (British) military IFF stuff, did have a story about an ICBM early warning system (I think American) that determined an attack was inbound because someone forgot about the Moon.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#758

I feel sorry for the pool soul who decided to send up their DIY weather balloon with gopro to get that space shot. Who knows he might even have a video of a F-22 sending a missile over.

How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics? If it's cheap enough, there will probably be youtubers and tiktokers buying them en-masse just "for the lulz".

Marginal cost? Zero. We fire more than two missiles in a week in training.

Technically whoever launched this thing saved us money on the target. So the cost was negative.

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#759

We need a cheaper way to down these spy balloons. The sidewinder missile + F-22 flight time costs are an order of magnitude greater than the total cost of launching one balloon. Send over the High Energy Laser with Integrated Optical-dazzler (HELIOS) to protect the west coast.

What would be ideal would be some kind of anti-balloon weaponry/recovery system. Some kind of balloon-based counter-balloon technology that could take control of the balloon and bring it to the ground intact. Would be a fun project to say the least.

[deleted]

Re: US jet shoots down unknown object flying off Alaska coast

#760

I feel sorry for the pool soul who decided to send up their DIY weather balloon with gopro to get that space shot. Who knows he might even have a video of a F-22 sending a missile over.

How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics? If it's cheap enough, there will probably be youtubers and tiktokers buying them en-masse just "for the lulz".

The cost doesn't matter much. It's a great drill for the military.
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