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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#751
In some countries like afaik Japan, it's customary to NOT tip and actually leaving a tip might be seen as an insult - as if you tried to insinuate they aren't paying their employees enough.

I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips. Without those tips, many job offers in the service industry would not be attractive, as they don't pay enough to make a living. Without tips, many of those positions never could be filled, unless wages were raised.

Of course, if wages were raised, the increased cost would ultimately have to be passed on to the consumer. So instead of paying €9 for your order, and placing a €1 tip - you might end up being billed €10 instead. At the bottom line, on average, this would work out to the consumer paying the same with or without tips, and the worker earning the same, with or without tips.

But with tips, that's just the average - while in actuality, some patrons will tip a lot more than others. And some workers might earn a lot more tips than others.

If you assume that workers are unfriendly by default, you could see this as an incentive to make them behave more friendly in an attempt to earn a tip. If you assume that workers are friendly by default, you could see that as a green-light for them to be unfriendly to those customers who don't tip. Not sure if creating a competitive environment between your workers is a good thing...

What tipping does, is make things more uneven. Some customer will pay more, some customer will pay less, some workers will earn more, some workers will pay less, some patrons will be treated more friendly, other patrons will be treated less friendly. The average stays the same, but the variance increases.

Without tipping, things would be more even. Individual cases would stay closer to the average.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#752
post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an American who has been living in Sydney for years and who stopped tipping here after getting used to it not being expected - but it has gotten a little weird/muddied of late. First it was Uber and the food delivery apps - and I did tip there because the app asked and I knew that in the gig economy the workers were not paid well (unlike others in Australia). Then I have been to a few restaurants lately that the…

You're correct, it's creeping in mostly due to cookie cutter POS machines setup for US market (I assume), and Doordash/Uber/etc apps and websites baking it in. I'd guess the payment machines can be setup to hide it, but management figures we have a "choice" (under light duress) to not tip so that's good enough. There are also a lot of international people working in hospitality so I guess they wouldn't be as against…

Would you be comfortable as an Aussie just always zeroing it out when you see it here then?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#753
post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because then those engineers will no longer be out of a job, but some other people with a smaller skillset will be! And all will be good, because we finally had a push towards real automation!

I'm sympathetic to this argument because people can't retrain for a different job instantly, and there's mostly no safety net that allows people to take the time to retrain and still be able to provide for themselves and family while they do it. But in the grand scheme of things, low-skill jobs should be automated to the greatest degree possible, freeing up people to work on more worthwhile things. And as automation…

You should read Mana if you haven't already.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manna-Two-Visions-Humanitys-Future-...

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#754
post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, it's creeping in mostly due to cookie cutter POS machines setup for US market (I assume), and Doordash/Uber/etc apps and websites baking it in. I'd guess the payment machines can be setup to hide it, but management figures we have a "choice" (under light duress) to not tip so that's good enough. There are also a lot of international people working in hospitality so I guess they wouldn't be as against…

Would you be comfortable as an Aussie just always zeroing it out when you see it here then?

If there's a presumptive pre-filled tip amount that I have to zero out that would annoy me a lot.

In most cases there is a tip button that I just don't press or I answer 'No' to the question on it. Sometimes the staff do it when handing it over. That doesn't annoy me as much and I don't usually feel much pressure since I've got a whole life behind me not tipping I guess. I do feel a bit awkward sometimes so I'd rather they not put me in the situation but I get over it.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#755

“Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed” - This sums up the entire problem with tipping. It's just simply wrong / false. Actually tipping is making sure that the owner of a café can get away with paying a too low salary to the employee. So best advice: don't tip! You are keeping alive a system where it is up to you, the customer, to (maybe) e…

Tipping also makes sure every restaurant is slowly turning into a Hooters. When was the last time you've seen an unattractive nonwhite male waiter?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

From what I've observed, a tiny fraction have left because of the no-cash policy, probably under 1%. We were expecting 5% to 10% in the first weeks, since customers that walked in for the very first time wouldn't have known of the policy. From the ones that left, most said they didn't have a card on them at the time and they'd return another time, but we did get a couple of people that did leave because they didn't a…

Interesting. Cash handling costs are 5% to 15% https://www.ihlservices.com/product/costofcash/

This makes going cash free a pretty smart choice.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping in Canada is extra absurd. The minimum wage for servers and bartenders is the same as for regular workers (eg. $15.50 per hour in Ontario). But thanks to cultural osmosis from the US, 15-25% tips are also expected on top of that.

Where I live in the US, mandatory minimum wage is $18.69/hr. Tips are on top of that. It has less to do with a living wage and more to do with the fact that the employees make less money with a mandatory 20% service charge than they do via tips.

What's a mandatory service charge even supposed to be? Are restaurant bills cost-plus contracts? Is there also a refrigeration charge, and an ingredients charge?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#758
post #716
post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage. isn't the whole problem with tipping is that every role with tipping will lower the base pay in consideration of that? I would find it very hard to believe anyone receiving tips prefering that to just a stable matching income (except for some exceptional cases...) And yeah, it turns out that people want to be paid more than minimum wage to be on th…

> I am sure every single person would rather be paid a consistent wage I’m certain that is not the case for many/most (depending on the area and establishment) tipped workers. Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up. > will lower the base pay Not in California and some other places (applies to at least 10-15% of the…

> Most waiters, baristas & bartenders certainly wouldn’t want to earn only slightly more than fast food workers even if the average wage goes up.

I don’t understand this argument. What I’m saying is to just take what the earnings were with wage + tips, and make it just wage. Literally not changing the total take home pay (I guess people don’t report tips though?)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#759
post #113

One Australian's anecdata follows. I hate tipping. It's an unwanted cognitive intrusion with no upside for me whatsoever. It also reflects a broken (wage / reward) system, and obviously my preference is they fix that . In Australia I may tip - iff the service is really good. And only at sit-down / eat-in restaurants. Cafes, cabs, ubers, couriers, hotels, etc - these are not tipping places. If I'm tipping at a restaur…

Kiwi here, I will tip in an Uber because I know they're getting shafted by Uber, but typically try to do so in cash because I'm sure Uber tries to take a cut of the in-app tip.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#760

Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer w…

Tipping at best is a form of bribery and at worst a feudal practice of wealth transfer. I tip because it is the social norm (and bribery: don't want my food messed with), but I think we can also acknowledge that this practice is weird and has a shaky history.

> a feudal practice of wealth transfer

Quite fitting description. But since we are no feudal lords, I would also describe tipping as the daily power trip of the plebes.

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