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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now section 230 means you can censor without censoring perfectly and not get sued. Repealing it means Facebook are liable for anything posted there IF the censor at all. So Facebook either gives up all censorship (free speech!), or gives up all user driven content (unlikely). That's just civil law, the constitutional right to free speech doesn't cover getting sued for it. Even if it does apply to corporations r…

I'm pretty sure repealing section 230 would mean companies would be liable for everything posted on their platforms. I would expect censorship/moderation to reach broadcast TV levels in that case. > At its core, Section 230(c)(1) provides immunity from liability for providers and users of an "interactive computer service" who publish information provided by third-party users: >> No provider or user of an interactive…

The short answer is it's complicated.

The longer answer is...

There are 2 sections we care about. The first (203(c)1) defines platforms as not being publishers so they're not liable (civilly) for content. That means they don't HAVE to moderate.

But that leaves a problem. As soon as you start moderating, you become a publisher whether you like it or now.

So there is ALSO 230(c)2

>Section 230(c)(2) further provides "Good Samaritan" protection from civil liability for operators of interactive computer services in the good faith removal or moderation of third-party material they deem "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected."

That lets platforms moderate and censor if they want to AND STILL NOT GET SUED when their moderation is not perfect.

Platforms probably have c1 rights anyway, courts ruled on that before 230 was enacted (section 230 is the remains of a bigger law that was ruled unconstitutional because it didn't respect the free press aspects enough)

So without section 230, platforms have 2 options: no moderation OR moderate but eat a tonne of liability.

Section 230 let's them have the best of both worlds: remove things AND don't be held responsible for things you didn't remove.

I should have been clearer that it was c2 that I was referring to.

If c2 were repealed, most platforms would have to stop all moderation. HN would be gone as we know it.

Messy enough?

In theory we could repeal the whole thing, but that has much the same effect as just repealing c2: companies close their user created content or get sued into oblivion by any lawsuit happy citizen.

You can see how this turns into political talking points and mis understandings very easily about how section 230 is both critical the free speech and against free speech and stops companies and enables them depending on the agenda of the speaker...

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion the secret here is that the emperor has no clothes, and Kanye's fashion garbage is equally as garbage as the rest of the high end fashion culture. It's not that kanye's that good, it's that its all a crock of dogfood with high end price tags and people who won't say anything trying to fit in for access to the wealthy.

Just because you don't understand an entire art-form and the industry attached to it, that doesn't make it all "garbage". Might as well go on to say that all modern art or modern cuisine is garbage, and sound just as ridiculous while doing so. Spoiler alert: weird artsy high-fashion pieces you see on runways are not expected to be sold or worn in real life. Just like visual design of concept cars isn't what's expecte…

For "every day" fashion, the game is given away by the cyclical nature of fashion trends. What's popular today is approximately what was popular 20 years ago. It's a game of maintaining constant demand for new stuff in an industry where almost all of the practical problems were solved a century ago.

High fashion is obviously a completely different beast. Something that has been pointed out to me recently is how "folk fashion" which focused on meticulous details like beading and cross-stitching was largely the pursuit of women, while modern "high fashion" that involves conceptual flourishes that are relatively simple to produce is more dominated by men. I'm not really sure what to make of this observation yet, but it is interesting.

The treatment of workers in both "every day" fashion and high fashion is deplorable as well and is hard to look past if you're trying to keep an open mind.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#754
post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S.230 covers the whole USA.

Yea, I edited my comment, I was talking more about those states which make their own laws which would affect a platform. One of the up-comments in this chain referred to that Texas law that I think is supposed to prevent de-platforming. Section 230 would certainly have widespread effects.

Ah, I see! Thanks that makes more sense.

I think you're right. Basically no user content platform that isn't (heavily) privately subsidised could survive without sec 230. Facebook would either need to charge hundreds of dollars a month per user or close accounts.

I think one of the things that limits our society is that we need complex laws (sec 230 is very misunderstood, the same is true of financial regulation though) AND laws have to be simple enough that voters cannot be misled over what they do. That's a very tight constraint, sort of like building the Apollo project but only 10 year olds are allowed to work on it...

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion the secret here is that the emperor has no clothes, and Kanye's fashion garbage is equally as garbage as the rest of the high end fashion culture. It's not that kanye's that good, it's that its all a crock of dogfood with high end price tags and people who won't say anything trying to fit in for access to the wealthy.

> Kanye's fashion garbage is equally as garbage as the rest of the high end fashion culture. This is not something I agree with, I believe there is something like called good taste ( http://www.paulgraham.com/goodtaste.html ), and just because I don't care to understand it (just like I don't care to understand expensive cars or expensive watches), that doesn't mean the entire field is garbage.

just because good taste exists doesn't mean it exists in the luxury fashion industry or any particular location or time. Good taste exists but not there.

It's overpriced gaslighting dogfood at best, a meat market to gain access to the stupidly wealthy at worst.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does "going death con 3 on jewish people" fall into his grand plan?

Courting conservatives. Remember these guys: https://www.splcenter.org/file/15770

> Courting conservatives.

Equating all conservatives with radial groups is not helpful and only further sows division.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#757
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be free speech absolutist, but I am not any longer, especially when it comes to social media. The argument in favor of absolute free speech for me was basically “let everyone hear everything and make up their own mind”. This presumes that people are swayed by the content of an argument. This is a false assumption, people are mostly swayed by the volume of the argument. This is well documented in psychologic…

this is not an argument against absolute free speech, its an argument against social media and discourse being controlled by algorithms

exactly. We need to go back to public discourse being carefully controlled by a select few.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#758
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying he's sick or he is wrong, yet his popularity keeps growing. Same for net worth. His tweets are getting 3-5x the engagement compared to a year ago. Maybe it's all part of the act.

Does engagement mean he is truly popular or that people are tuning into the spectacle? I think it would be true for most celebrities sliding into mental decline that their more deranged tweets would get a lot more eyes on them.

[deleted]

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#759

There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. It's been a shift over a couple years. I'm not supporting Ye or any of his bullshit, but some of the comments on here are really chillingly authoritarian. Parler isn't going to be able to maintain "free speech" even if they or Kanye want it to, which I seriously doubt…

> There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore.

What are you thoughts on free speech regarding misinformation or election denial?

When so many republican candidates reject the result of 2020, what's the right answer? Allow them to continue to divide the country up until half of the populace no longer trusts the democracy and starts another civil war?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the rules and the Wikipedia page and that's all I can find. What else is there?

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies why would you go to wikipedia to get a copy of twitter's policies? Anyways based on what you've said so far you haven't actually been paying attention. It's been year's since Dorsey went Rogan's show and took one his trust and safety lawyers with him to do all the legal talk so he could maintain deniability.

I read that. It seems to back up my point. Moderation is minimal outside of the specific cases I listed...
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