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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#751

Post by ben0x539 »

bumby wrote: post #701
ben0x539 wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think that argument works a lot better in a field where they arent bullying people into working overtime near constantly

Perhaps. But again, why is the overtime needed? If it's because it provides more patient care beyond what a nurse can provide in a good system, it might be a valid point. But if it's because the system is fundamentally broken, I'm skeptical that hiring more people will actually fix anything. From personal experience, it will only create a lag that will require the same need for more hires down the road.

if the overtime isnt needed let people go home after 6 hours each day

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#752

Post by alexashka »

notch656a wrote: post #593
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

That's not how the real world works.

People don't 'switch careers' when they've spent years getting good at it. What they do instead is sit around posting on HackerNews and fucking the dog in all sorts of other ways.

Do you realize the irony of it all? This place gets like 1/10th the traffic on weekends. That's not a coincidence.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#753

Post by kenjackson »

redwall_hp wrote: post #616
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture. So...this is also the biggest reason (besides lack of pay or basic human dignity) that restaurants and retailers are having a lot more trouble finding employees. Rude (and sometimes violent) customers were already an issue, but they've become absolute a…

Everyone thinks that their belligerence makes them Sam Adams or Gandhi rather than just the jerk they likely are. I see this every weekend at youth sporting events. I'm just like, "it doesn't matter why -- if the ump says you need to leave, just leave -- this isn't Game 7 of the World Series".

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#754

Post by maestroia »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #484
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

Dont forget the sexual harassment. Twenty two year old nurse and boomer men don't mix.

Someone I dated last year has worked on the administrative side of hospitals for years. Her statement was "everyone is hooking up in them, and it's typically ignored. Unless they use a patient bed, then all hell breaks loose."

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#755

Post by HWR_14 »

armchairhacker wrote: post #711
triska wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is due to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy : https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html "In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agric…

Nurses, teachers, charity workers, IEPs, game devs. These are all jobs where people sign up for the job . Whether it’s altruism or genuine passion. They’re willing to compromise and put up with less pay and harder working conditions. But because they’re willing to compromise, these people are pushed to their limit . With not only low pay and shit conditions, but higher-ups which actively exploit their altruism and pa…

This is the same reason why startups often phrase what they are trying to do as "change the world" and not "become filthy rich" to their employees.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#756

Post by alimov »

InitialLastName wrote: post #516
alostpuppy wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of travel nurses should really be indicative of a problem.

Should it? The market for medical care has a base rate (and appears to be clearly under-staffed for that rate), but (especially in a pandemic) it's rather peaky and the basic skills appear to be VERY transferable from location to location. If there are people with the skills that are willing to travel, it seems that a system that maintained maximum capacity in all locations would be a very wasteful one.

Yes, it should be indicative of a problem. The fact that nurses are overworked, and underpaid is a big issue.

> If there are people with the skills that are willing to travel, it seems that a system that maintained maximum capacity in all locations would be a very wasteful one.

The general idea here is that more and more nurses are willing to do this because they are underpaid and overworked in their regular (non-Travel Nurse) positions. I didn’t see anyone arguing for “maximum capacity” either… just better wages and working conditions.

> basic skills appear to be VERY transferable from location to location

If you read the parent comment by sllewe you will see that there are other costs and concerns around this which do more to stress existing nurses at whatever hospital is being filled with travel nurses. Imagine training a new someone every week (or however often new travel nurses pop up) while also having to do your own job… especially when you are already being overworked and when a miscalculation on your part could result in loss of life. All the while knowing that the travel nurse is making significantly more money than you, negotiated their hours of availability and doesn’t have to care about the unit beyond whatever contract length they signed up for..

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#757

Post by pessimizer »

KarlKemp wrote: post #642
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

This reads too much like a generalization of the standard complaints about management and their stupid meetings, the basic thesis of that web comic that was neither funny nor true, Dilbert. The criminal justice system may be overwhelmed, but its reaction certainly isn't to just let criminals "exit like a revolving door". The US is still incarcerating people at 10x the rate of other wealthy countries. Nurses being ove…

Dilbert wasn't a webcomic, it was in the paper.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#758

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

ikiris wrote: post #708
landemva wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That describes me, though in tech. Trying to step back in to tech and recently had interview. After I explained parenting time schedule, HR guy said everbody works 60 hour weeks every week so there is not a role for me.

Yeah the incredulous looks I get when I turn down gigs at "unlimited" PTO positions are just wild. Like what did you expect to happen? We're not stupid.

"Unlimited" gets a bad rap.

At the place I'm at right now, we have an unlimited policy and I've got 25 days of PTO planned over the course of the year that's all been approved.

But yeah...I do know not every place is that good about it.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#759

Post by nradov »

tetraca wrote: post #694
notch656a wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

> Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at least versus whatever shitty alternatives you have. Leaving when you want to stay, to me, would be a much bigger indicator that nurses who want to stay in the profession can't because of wage/benefits/conditions issues. I think the conclusion of this sort of economic thinking is basically: Give your employees just enough m…

Employers are going to pay the minimum wages they can in order to retain sufficient workers. They obviously aren't going to voluntarily pay extra just so that employees can flourish.

There are a lot of jobs openings available to someone with an RN certificate and some experience. Unemployment in that group is close to zero. They don't all work in direct patient care roles.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#760

Post by nomoreusernames »

think about this statement, good nurses are taking care of the people you love the most in their most helpless hours. how fucking cruel are we as a society for taking this type of love for granted? its just wrong to use people like that. nurses biggest psychological problem is that they ignore themselves and love others and take care of them better. i think its really shitty. like veterans of defensive wars.
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