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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#751

Post by ModernMech »

tracedddd wrote: post #743
ModernMech wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making it more likely people will fight within the bounds of the existing political system. You are aware there was a violent disruption to the peaceful transfer of power last year, right? Since then, predicated on lies, partisans have changed the system to give political parties full control of election results; and the January 6th Committee has essentially uncovered and extensive coup plot that spans the White Ho…

No offense but it sounds like you need to take a media break and get some air. Go camping.

The above information is not from "media" but from official government proceedings of the bipartisan Jan 6 Committee. I suppose when your elected leaders tell you that the previous government tried to overthrow the current government, one response is to go camping. You do you.

But in the end there is actual physical evidence in front of us. We all have a choice to accept it, or to sweep it under the rug. To deny what it is telling us. To equivocate and prevaricate. To whatabout or to even outright lie to ourselves.

But the actual physical evidence is pointing to a large autocratic force in our government that intends to take away your vote, in favor of Russian-style one-party rule. It already tried once, and it continues unabated today.

Say what you want about the America electoral system, and by God there's a lot to say about it, but at the end of the day there was a transfer of power last year because the old government lost the election fair and square. Elections do matter. Voting does matter. So if you appreciate your right to vote, don't look away. Go on your camping trip, but when you get back, take a long hard look at the evidence presented by the Jan 6th Committee.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#752

Post by whimsicalism »

all2 wrote: post #638
ericmay wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. Depends on what you mean by gun control though. Many (myself included) are pro 2nd Amendment so it's not just the gun lobby/NRA who oppose some (not all) regulation. I guess my point is that gun control (whatever that means) won't happen not only because of gun lobbyists but because…

Replying to Pydry, adjacent to parent: None of those countries enshrine as law the concept of self defense in the form of gun ownership, though. The "right to bear arms" is considered the fundamental way to protect against tyranny in the United States. One of the founding fathers (Jefferson?) even posited that revolution was a responsibility of the people when a government became too overbearing. Couple that with the…

I am not convinced that "Judeo/Christian worldviews" have led to a more developed or dominant West than would have developed in the absence of those worldviews.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#753

Post by jl6 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #600
jl6 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I wasn’t around in the 1970s, so can someone explain to me how great it was with some examples that would make me want to go and live in the 1970s?

There is a whole website for this, but it's more the 1960's that were golden. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

That’s just a bunch of [highly motivated] financial metrics. I was hoping someone might tell me some real-world benefits like “I used to be able to do X, now I can only do Y”.

Of course I don’t expect to hear much because as far as I can tell, 2020s USA is better than 1970s USA in every way I can think of.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#754

Post by dhruval »

nirvdrum wrote: post #537
dhruval wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you are talking about social inequality (a zero sum game) vs poverty (a non zero sum game) The idea that no one was expected to own cell phones so they didn’t enrich our lives is clearly false. Can apply this to any technological advance. So for eg. in the 1800s no one expected you to own a car. So the invention and subsequent technology driven deflation of car prices didn’t make everyone’s lives better.

> The idea that no one was expected to own cell phones so they didn’t enrich our lives is clearly false. It's not like everyone in the 70s was walking around completely depressed waiting for some breakthrough in computing technology so they could carry a computer in their pocket and ease all their ills. People could be content and maybe even happy without access to technology that didn't exist. Many Americans would l…

Well happiness and material wealth are two very separate things.

People can be very content and happy with very basic necessities. Some of the happiest people on the planet are renunciate monks and nuns based in brain scan research (for eg mathieu richard)

And of course people can be depressed even to the point of being suicide while being wealthy. (Any number of high profile cases)

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#755

Post by [deleted] »

treis wrote: post #618
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but somehow elides the reality that even if interest rates were zero, you would still end up having to "divert" 5.8 years of median salary to own a median house in 2021, which has significant implications for lots of other aspects of life, particularly but not limited to retirement.

But, again, you're using purchase price which is not how people buy homes. For $100,000 borrowed that's $422 a month at 3% and and $1,264 at 15%. Mortgage payments as a % of income are at historic lows: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP This is an unusually good time to be a home owner. You can borrow at near 0 or even slightly negative real interest rates and buy an asset that is almost guaranteed to hold/incr…

[deleted]

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#756

Post by sleepdreamy »

treis wrote: post #618
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but somehow elides the reality that even if interest rates were zero, you would still end up having to "divert" 5.8 years of median salary to own a median house in 2021, which has significant implications for lots of other aspects of life, particularly but not limited to retirement.

But, again, you're using purchase price which is not how people buy homes. For $100,000 borrowed that's $422 a month at 3% and and $1,264 at 15%. Mortgage payments as a % of income are at historic lows: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MDSP This is an unusually good time to be a home owner. You can borrow at near 0 or even slightly negative real interest rates and buy an asset that is almost guaranteed to hold/incr…

Come on. I just purchased my first home in my late 20s and I am one of the very few in my circle to do it. To suggest anyone has a 400 dollar mortgage payment is just ridiculous and untrue. MY rate is 2.78%. I pay $1000 and thats on the very cheap side for where I live. Average is 1700 and up(I live in an isolated area, but an extremely dense/populated state)

Your comment seems disingenuous. You're also discounting the fact that you need a large downpayment (10,000+) to even get a mortgage in the first place. Do you not live in the USA? Housing prices are a real problem for my generation.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#757

Post by NoGravitas »

whimsicalism wrote: post #542
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't eat a smartphone, you can't sleep in an internet connection, you can't do your nursing job through a computer. Formal education is more expensive. A balanced diet is harder to get, and more expensive. Housing is more expensive near your work. But gas as well if you live far from it. Today's people debt is higher, and you can't easily work one job, raise a family, and afford education plus buy a home. It was…

Oh come on. People were literally starving in the US in the 60s-70s. Not really something that is easy to happen nowadays, even if it is difficult to get a balanced diet.

One in 9 people in the US suffers from food insecurity (not having regular access to adequate meals). During the height of the disruptions from the pandemic last year, one in 4 households experienced food insecurity.

Sources:

https://sail.gmu.edu/program/hunger-banquet-2021/hunger https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-...

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#758

Post by NoGravitas »

988747 wrote: post #615
what_is_orcas wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. Why should the minimum wage not provide a sufficiently secure life for the worker? I say this all the time: if you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage you can't afford to be in business .

Because minimum wage job is supposed to be temporary. You do it right after high school, for couple years, before you decide on what you want your "real" job to be. Or you do it part time to pay your expenses while attending college. No minimum wage work should be something you do your whole life.

The average minimum wage worker is 35. 80% of minimum wage workers are over 20. 56% are women, 28% have children. On average, minimum wage workers earn half of their family's income.

Source: Economic Policy Institute

https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percen...

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#759

Post by NoGravitas »

nradov wrote: post #698
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

There's more to employee compensation than just wages. Real total employee compensation has risen significantly since the 1970s when you factor in employer contributions to health insurance premiums. While some of that money is wasted, employees are getting tangible benefits in the form of new medical treatments that weren't even available 50 years ago. What we need to do is decouple health insurance from employment.

> What we need to do is decouple health insurance from employment.

The easiest way to do that would be with a national single payer health care system, which would also help lower total healthcare spending. But both mainstream political parties are dead set against doing such a thing.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#760

Post by 8note »

csomar wrote: post #674
pydry wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. This is ... derailing. If Americans didn't love guns, they wouldn't go and buy guns. There is close to 400 million unregistered firearm in the USA. I don't think it's only Republican's. The companies who make guns will try to protect their business but at this point they are just sec…

A person with a fun is dangerous, whether they are an idiot not.

It's the same as all code having bugs, regardless of whether the programmer was skilled

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