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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

751–760 of 905 posts

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#751
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I people freely move from one service or product to another, usually it's because the new service is cheaper or better than the old service or product. That's direct value to the end user right there. Moving to AWS from running your own data centres is vastly more cost effective for most companies, you can build systems faster, you can scale them instantly, you can move resources between regions easily, you can focus…

> You cannot buy hardware like it anywhere else, at any price. Strange, I bought a PC with 2x the specs at the same price as a maxed out Mac…

Specs like GHz doesn't really paint the whole picture. In any case, M1 is a whole other story, and Apple went from simply being better to being a decade ahead.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#752
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a thriving tech scene in Europe please explain

Hard to know where to start! Looking at the Netherlands, where I'm from: There are many fast-growing tech companies. Both big and small. Bigger examples are Adyen and Elastic. GitLab started out here. This is a pretty nice overview, which still misses a lot: https://www.notion.so/Dutch-SaaS-Landscape-89504403a57e43f58... There are many many tech companies with 10s of millions of revenue that aren't even on this list.…

You chose the most competitive European economy (besides Sweden), that's not a good representation to Europe. But even if we only look at NL there are quite a few metrics it falls way short from the U.S: VC raised per capita, exit volume and salaries are all falling short.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#753
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, on the balance, I don't think any of the examples you mentioned would do that much to my general happiness. I care about the other things in life so much more than about processor performance. If Google Maps hadn't come someone else would do it. They didn't invent digital maps. I don't think society in general would be very different. If we lost basic things like safety, food, and so on, then yes that matte…

Again, very small-scale thinking that misses the forest for the trees. Yes, you don’t care about processor performance. Fine. What I care about is the people in my life not wasting time because of shitty Android phones. I care about things like being able to give my parents my old phones, which have years of productive life on them; Qualcomm is the reason that doesn’t work on Android. I care about the people who can’…

I think you're projecting. I'm not thinking at the small scale or missing the forest for the tree. I'm filtering out the implementation details that don't ultimately matter that much.

3 months vacations and a relaxed work ethic are absolutely compatible with issues of housing, Healthcare, and climate change. VC funded start-up oriented solutions are not the only thing that can be done to fix this issue, not by a long shot.

Healthcare is a political decision, to begin with, and many EU countries with all of the things you decry basically solved it. Housing is the same way, it's a collective problem that has to be solved collectively.

Emergency earthquake notifications is 70s tech. Fancy machine learning approaches to earthquake prediction barely outperform basic linear regression techniques. Emergency notification systems are a solved pro le..

Automatic emergency braking was never developed by American big tech. It was first implemented commercially in Japanese cars. But even here, AEB is a case of small scale thinking - the best way of fixing the issues it targets is not tech but city design.

Qualcomm isn't the reason android phones are slow. Qualcomm processors are more than fast enough to do 95% of what you would want to do. The issue is devs who code for the iPhone. Making every processor as fast as the A14 will never happen, people will use lower end processors to save money then.

Again, it's just missing the forest for the trees again. The reason why we have the issues we have is, in most cases, not by a lack of tech, but because of other issues. Big tech is not the universal solution to the important problems.

By the way, your segment on Google Maps is simply wrong. Digital maps were already used for navigation by then. Google just bought a startup and won the market against Microsoft and OpenStreetMaps. If they lost we'd be using OSM or something from MS instead.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#754

I am from India and for the first 8-10 years of my post-college life I drank all the "glory" reporting of the American style of doing business. I tried doing it myself. I fell apart, suffered silently for years. Moved to Germany, went through counseling at the end of that period. Learnt that life is a lot more than silly startup games. No matter what anyone tells me, I have seen it myself first hand - I want a happie…

> sell them like they are saving humanity. It is just sales all the way down.

Yeah this is the core of it. Most American devs realize this way too late, and as a result I think it powers the activism at US companies. Later in the game, they realize it’s all some form of adtech/sales/so on all the way down, so want to inject new meaning into their employment narrative.

I don’t have an answer for you other than agreeing with you. If you’re ok not looking for deep meaning through work, tech can present compensation and work life balance fo basically check out any direction of meaning fulfillment you like. Just… what to do? I empathize a lot.

Fwiw, my loose solution is two approaches:

- working in tech companies or open source projects that really present something different as an industry outlook if things work out. Crypto/btc open source comes to mind.

- or, seek out the really high comp tech jobs that are non-FAANG, and buy a new life basically after a few years there and saving.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#755
post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps was developed by Where 2 Technologies in Sydney. Google bought it in late 2004, same sort of time OSM started (in the UK) Microsoft AutoRoute predated that by a decade - NextBase (A UK company) built it in 1988, I think Microsoft had bought it by the mid 90s. The US is great at taking other peoples inventions, buying them, marketing them, and claiming them for itself. The rest of the world innovates, the…

But also those US companies brought this tech they bought to the masses. To say they were built by others anyway reduced the role big tech played here same way a naive developer thinks a company’s success is just because of code he wrote.

Do you think OSM was going to not bring the data to the masses? Or that no developper was going to make apps that used that data?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#756

This article is truly bizarre. The main point it makes is that the top 500 US companies grew faster than the top 500 European ones in the last decade or so. But then it quickly mention, without any further analysis, that both their GDP actually grew at a similar pace. So the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies. So all else being equals it means that the smaller US…

> the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies This is literally the article’s point. Europe and the U.S. grew similarly. The U.S. and China produced more large companies. (The Continent’s larger companies also being older than the other two’s.) > supposedly more investment in R&D Not supposedly, factually. The article explicitly states this. It’s the Economist; if you…

Europe constrains its small businesses too. I’ve watched my wife’s company struggle through the endless maze of fragmented, bullshit European bureaucracy with great sympathy. It’s unending and costs small companies so much time and money.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously saying people in the north of Europe are happier than in the south? I beg to disagree. Countries in the north have, for example, much higher suicide rates. I’d actually argue people in the south are happier than in the north. Of course, their economies are weaker. But that doesn’t have to translate directly into unhappiness.

I think unemployment will usually translate to unhappiness. If you are unemployed 30-40 year what do you do? Start a family? Can't. Travel the world? Can't. Find consolation in religion? Very few people in Europe do that. Jobs are very very important for self esteem and mental well being.

If we don't even agree on what happiness means, how can we decide whether people in the US or EU are happier?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#758
post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to be ruled by a fascists" is kind of cheap rhetoric on the contrary being ruled by a fascist supporter and/or supported by fascist sympathizers has an enormous impact on the quality of life. That's true everywhere, in Europe as in USA, that's why everybody here in Europe is preoccupied by far right extremists especially in the former eastern Europe. > you would need to show that it actually is a major concern for…

> being ruled by a fascist supporter and/or supported by fascist sympathizers has an enormous impact on the quality of life Of course. It's the "about to be ruled by" part that's the cheap-ish rhetoric, as it implies an unsubstantiated imminent threat, not just "some of these guys are really going in the wrong direction". > having 10 times the chances of dying shot by a stranger makes it 10 times more probable that i…

> No, it absolutely certainly does not, unless that's the only way you could die. That's really, really basic statistics.

You're right, but all other stats regarding mortality are worse for US than my country, so...

Homicides rates in particular are many times worse not just some % worse, that's why I mostly complain about them.

But we also have longer life expectations, better food, better healthcare, etc. etc. if that's of some interest.

we have much worse salaries on average though...

but less inequality overall.

> so I'll have to make some assumptions here. 366 deaths in seven years means ~50 deaths per year

If that was the only way people died.

It's basic statistics.

But in reality it's 50 more deaths, completely avoidable, every other developed country avoided them.

It's like saying that in USA infant mortality rate is "only" 5.7 every 1,000 newborns, while Estonia, many times poorer than US, has only 1.9 x 1,000.

In absolute numbers and as deaths per year rate is negligible, but on a human level it's a complete nightmare! and an healthcare disaster, especially for the country with the highest spending per capita on the Planet for healthcare.

I think a positive example is deaths in space flights.

Only 15 austronauts died during spaceflight, the odds of something going wrong and killing everybody in space are gigantic, but the space programs managed to keep the fatalities low by applying rigorous security checks. The fatality rate is around 3%, it's very high in absolute, it's quite low if we consider the kinds of risks involved.

It's a matter of willingness, if in USA so many people die every year for reasons that other similar countries have mostly solved or reduced drastically, IMO means that there is no political will to keep'em down.

> which has ~330 million people, that means an approximately one in a million chance of getting killed in a mass shooting per year.

still a lot worse then everywhere else in the werstern World.

And you don't really count deaths like that, 10 young students killed by another armed student destroy the fabric of entire communities forever.

Because it's not 50 deaths a year, it's 366 people that shouldn't have died that way in a developed country.

It's 366 families than won't see their kids grow old, without any logical reason.

You are counting on luck, but I personally don't trust luck.

it's a risk I would never take. For no reason.

> But a one in a million chance of dying would not stop me from wanting to live in a country if I otherwise so desired.

except that that's 1 in a million MORE, that adds up to, for example, the 1 in 13 thousands chances of being shot dead that you have in Los Angeles, that your kids have, in Rome the chances are 1 in 200 hundred thousand (assuming all other stats are similar, even though they are not and Los Angeles lags behind in all of them)

If you understand basic statistics, as I imagine you do, it's pretty clear what a responsible parent would chose, given the choice.

It's not only about how many people die every year, having lost someone for a 1 in a hundred million event, it's the mentality that also scares me: considering the chances of death kinda like a gamble is what makes me think I would never go back living in the USA, even more so after having enjoyed the peace and tranquillity of European life for a long long time.

It's easy to discard the benefits if you don't factor them into the equation.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends, were you hired the previous Thursday?

So what if they were? If you're ill, you're ill and should not have to go in to work. Sometimes ill-timed shit happens. Only in the US you can get fired for it. My mind boggles at the concept of "retroactive" firing... wtf is that even?

I suppose the upside is you can quit at anytime with no notice. That’s great from an employee perspective, in a feeling of freedom sense.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> societies that promote innovation have higher quality of life Does the US have a higher quality of life than Germany, France or the Netherlands? I agree that innovation is important and societies should promote it, but -imho- not at the cost of consumer & employee protection.

I would like to see US answers to this but in the US your quality of life is fantastic if you are rich and then it degrades fast: in NL it is good to great for all. So I can pick bleeding hard work in a lottery to maybe be someone or I can do whatever I like and have most of those same perks. Where is the choice here?

I'm in the US. Quality of life is unbelivable if you're rich, great for upper middle class, good for middle class, okay if you're working class, terrible if you're poor.

Of course, all of that is still very much generalization, and I find comparing quality of life in Europe with US is more or less dick measure contest. You try one when there are no fact based arguments to talk about. NHS versus Medicaid, for example, that's could be a good debate.

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