Live data from Hacker News

$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

cnbc.com

751–758 of 758 posts

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#751
post #132

Daily reminder that the market cap does NOT exist therefore it can not be "wiped off". Its imaginary nonsense. Market cap explained real simple: https://coil.com/p/XRPFax/Understanding-the-Crypto-Market-Ca...

Do you agree that this applies to the market cap of everything? Because the argument is stated in terms of crypto but is in fact completely generic: no one can buy all of AMZN at the market cap price either.

Yes, but the market cap for companies serves a different purpose. Its a somewhat funny way to compare which companies people (shareholder) value higher. You cant compare share price ofc because of different numbers of shares so the market cap kinda corrects that. The number itself is meaningless but you can sorta compare it as financial size. It might be more relevant than comparing number of people hired or revenue or other metrics especially for companies form completely different branches.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#752
post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you objectively find out who is the attacker, so that you do not slash the victim on accident?

Can you give an example of what you mean? There are no attackers or victims in the scenario of the chain forking and a block producer gooing out of their way to mine both chains with the same stake.

the chain splits in two.

how do you know which one to continue staking on to avoid getting slashed?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#753
post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of what you mean? There are no attackers or victims in the scenario of the chain forking and a block producer gooing out of their way to mine both chains with the same stake.

the chain splits in two. how do you know which one to continue staking on to avoid getting slashed?

By default your validator software picks the unmodified chain unless you install a special update that lets it use the newly forked chain. If you do nothing you continue mining just one chain (the old one) and nothing is lost. If you validate with both then you are penalized. That can't really be done on accident.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#754
post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But we're discussing Elon Musk here. The fact that he's spending resources on nominally going to Mars is completely idiotic. I've got enough of a brain to figure that out. Its a free country. Which means I'm free to make my opinion on how others spend their money and resources. ----------- This is relevant because of all of the highly questionable moves Musk has done in the past weeks. He pumped BTC, pumped DOG…

Nicely put. Just one point on the last paragraph, I guess somebody with Asperger's could also have ADHD. They can concentrate on something that catches their interest and forget about everything else for a while, but they can also shift their focus to whatever draws their attention next. In fact sustaining their effort over one long-term thing might be a skill they have to hone just like many other people. There does…

> In fact sustaining their effort over one long-term thing might be a skill they have to hone just like many other people. There doesn't seem to be a contradiction IMO.

What is Elon Musk's "one long term thing" ?

* Payment Processors? (Paypal? X.com? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com)

* Electric Cars? (Tesla?)

* Solar Panels? Utility scale electric generators? (SolarCity?)

* Space? (SpaceX)

* Infrastructure? (Hyperloop? Boring Company?)

* AI? (Self-driving cars)

* Internet infrastructure? (Starlink?)

* BTC / DOGEcoin? Crypto-currencies?

For Payment Processors: we're looking at web technologies like Javascript, Two-factor authentication, Back-end Web processing, etc. etc. That's very much in the know for us nerds who hang around here in ycombinator: an extended "hyperfocus" on Payment Processors is a lifetime of effort alone.

There's simply not enough time for Elon Musk to reach "expert" levels of understanding in any of these subjects. Anyone who knows anything about these subjects knows that Musk's discussion points are EXTREMELY shallow. They're deep enough that maybe a layperson thinks that Musk is smart, but... seriously, look at his recent DOGEcoin / BTCcoin discussion points. The dude barely understand cryptocurrencies (or at least pretends he barely understands them, as he "suddenly" realizes the energy implications of BTC).

------------

I'm not really doubting the ability of someone with Asperger's to change subjects. But given how quickly Elon Musk changes subjects, its my personal opinion that he probably doesn't have Asperger's. Do remember: that all the while he's changing these subjects, Elon Musk is partying hard and participating in pop culture (Saturday Night Live, Rick and Morty, Twitter rants, etc. etc.).

His behavior does NOT match any Asperger's individual I've ever met. I know everyone's case is unique, but... that's a lot of "non-Asperger's" things going on (social partying, pop culture, appearances on TV, live talks, CEO position, "jack-of-all-trades" behavior instead of depth into particular subjects... etc. etc.)

I'm no expert in psychology. But this behavior is _mania_: common in say Bipolar individuals. Which is useful in its own niches of course (much like Asperger's is useful in engineering: mania typically causes an individual to visit many subjects... albeit shallowly but yeah, that's probably useful to a typical CEO moreso than hyperfocus actually)

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's ~100m eth so your numbers are way off. I have a sneaky suspicion you don't really know what you are talking about.

Like i said, it's just a rumour, but from a fairly informed source. Do you have a better estimate? Total amount of fundraising ETH did initially was about 20 mil? 1-2 mil sounds like a feasible early VC check to get 10%, not including games you can play later to increase your stack further.

10% with the current market cap would put him among the top 10 richest people in the world... I highly doubt these numbers are accurate.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#756
post #741
post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see nothing wrong with taxes. I just don’t think a monetary unit managed by politicians works in the long run.

But the power to set monetary policy is just a restricted version of the power to tax. Creating money is effectively a tax on savings. So why are you OK with taxes in general, but not this very restricted tax?

> Creating money is effectively a tax on savings.

No, it’s much more than that. For example, by creating money, and using it to buy bonds, you can push down the rate of interest. This has nothing to do with taxes. It’s an interference with market coordination, because interest rates play a central part in this.

For example, let’s say you have a business worth one billion dollars, and you earn 50 million dollars in profit per year (a 5% yield per annum). By setting the Federal Funds rate at 6%, the government can make it profitable to sell this business and deposit the proceeds in a bank account, hereby earning one percentage point more in yearly returns.

The government shouldn’t have the power to halt economic activity in this manner, because it amounts to central planning, ie. communism. Which has been proven to be a disaster.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#757
post #756
post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the power to set monetary policy is just a restricted version of the power to tax. Creating money is effectively a tax on savings. So why are you OK with taxes in general, but not this very restricted tax?

> Creating money is effectively a tax on savings. No, it’s much more than that. For example, by creating money, and using it to buy bonds, you can push down the rate of interest. This has nothing to do with taxes. It’s an interference with market coordination, because interest rates play a central part in this. For example, let’s say you have a business worth one billion dollars, and you earn 50 million dollars in pr…

> by creating money, and using it to buy bonds, you can push down the rate of interest. This has nothing to do with taxes

Of course it does. It's all just wealth redistribution. Lowering interest rates redistributes wealth from lenders to borrowers, i.e. from savers to debtors.

> By setting the Federal Funds rate at 6%, the government can make it profitable to sell this business

The government can do exactly the same thing with tax policy. The only difference is that tax policy is more flexible (because it has many degrees of freedom rather than just one) and hence more powerful. The power to control the money supply is a proper subset of the power to tax. You can't support the latter but not the former and remain logically consistent.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#758
post #31

Very perplexing behavior from Musk, I must say. Bitcoin's energy consumption has been front-and-center for a few years now and even more so when the bull market got hot. How does Musk decide to throw $1.5 billion worth of Tesla's cash into BTC without acknowledging this? I was expecting a little bit more due-diligence from him, but he's been absolutely consumed by crypto markets in general.

Maybe that was his intention: Raising awareness for the energy-consumption of the bitcoin-network by pulling a PR-stunt like this.
Post reply on HN