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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

751–760 of 1001 posts

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#751
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and raising the minimum wage is an attempt to control that by putting the costs back on the employer.

Who will simply either pass the costs along to the consumer, or shut down.

Which is a healthy cleanse of an exploitive economy, and America definitely has an exploitive economy, make no mistake.

A minimum wage is a decision a society makes, that says "this is the minimum market rate for a human that we consider non-exploitive", it's not an economic decision made to maximize GDP or profit. If a company can't afford to operate in a way that's non-exploitive then it needs to reconfigure or die out, because it doesn't belong in your society.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of countries who have had minimum wage for some time and have increased that minimum wage over time. So there have been lots of studies done on the impact of it. Here’s one: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... > This report includes the findings from a meta-analysis of the empirical UK national minimum wage literature. Similar to a previous UK minimum wage study by de Lind…

Even with minimum wages at 15 dollars, it is still hard to say this is a decent job, although this is the already among the highest globally. The problem lies that the value of assets, especially housing etc, increase much faster than wages can catch up.

I honestly think that part of the problem is that the older people who make decisions on things like minimum wage remember their own minimum wage jobs. My first job paid $3.35/hr. $15/hr is $30K a year full-time. I barely made more than that at my first professional programming job out of college. It sounds insane to me on first hearing that $15/hr is not "decent" pay for an entry level, non-skilled position.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#753

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

I agree but let's continue with that story. Let's remember that the beginning of the story was the labor shortage. So not enough people to serve in all restaurants at a competitive price.

Let's suppose some restaurants decide to raise prices. Customers decide to go to a place that's cheaper but... it is packed. Shortage, remember? Free market dictates that higher demand than supply makes the prices go up.

If client CAN go to a cheaper venue then we are not in a position of shortage.

In the end, look at places like Scandinavian countries: salaries are high and going to the restaurant is very expensive. When you think about it, being served by humans is actually a luxury and as global wealth progresses, this should become less and less common.

I really hope that the future of restaurants is either fully automated fast foods or high end luxury restaurants that people work out of passion, and that you can afford maybe oncee every months.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#754
post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right in a way, but all we are doing is setting a minimum market rate for employees so that they can't be exploited. If a business can't afford that employee at that rate then it can't afford to do business without being exploitive and so it needs to reconfigure itself until it can. I am not saying it's a net good or bad for the economy by the way, I don't think I am qualified for that. But I can tell…

Whether or not someone’s being exploited isn’t determined by a wage. For example, my wife is an administrative assistant for an NGO. She makes about average for an administrative assistant, but that makes her one of the highest paid employees. Some of the employees are true believers and donate much of their salary back. Others are broke, and can hardly make it by. Most are women with husbands who make the real money…

I think you're trying to suggest that an NGO couldn't run without a low minimum wage because it couldn't afford it, but there are ways to structure an organization that society is willing to volunteer labour for without jacking up the rest of the community. I say that as someone with a partner in a very similar position to yours.

No one is working at McDonalds out of the kindness of their heart. For my partner's work, they simply have a delineation between volunteer participation and worked hours, and it makes it very clear which hours you're paid for and which you aren't. They have "working bees" and "volunteer weekends" and so on, and people are happy to sign up for them.

Similarly, theatres (as in performance art not cinema) are often for-profit but still quite heavily volunteer reliant, because people want to support the arts and the theatres wouldn't run without them they can make it work. If a petrol station tried to do that, no one would sign up for the volunteer program, and "the market" has happily chosen which businesses can run with volunteered labour or not.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#755
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://academictimes.com/economic-news-reporting-suffers-fr... No. News sources are focusing on business instead of labor's issues, because news statistically favors business interests, not labor's. If your hypothetical business owner is unable to start a business without paying a reasonable wage, then that business should not exist. And your hypothetical business owner should invest in Apple, Facebook, or otherwise…

What's a reasonable wage? Should any business in developing countries exist, given the incredibly low wages? Their wages can't be considered reasonable, right?

You just compared the US to developing nations.

It's an apt comparison.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#756
post #32

Personally, the pandemic has taught me how little I really need physical stores. Only a few items, like bicycles, shoes, and backpacking backpacks, do I really prefer buying them in a physical store. So for me at least, it would be okay if all these retail jobs went away, and all these retail stores just went out of business, and you just bought everything online. It seems like it could really be a disaster for peopl…

I feel the opposite, that people try to rip me off online with nice-looking but ultimately non-durable or non-functional products.

And I think this will get worse now thanks to the pandemic and price increases.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, no education, no experience jobs are the norm. Does that restaurant pay incoming career food service staff a wage sufficient to raise a family on? A solid third of the households in the US take in under 50k/yr. More than half that are under 25k. I don't know about you, but 37k doesn't go far. Assuming 30% effective tax rate that's 2158/mo. 1 bed flat in my city $1400 Cell phone bill: $100 Home internet: $100 E…

These are just hypothetical numbers but I think the problem here is that people are resourceful and work to change or reduce these expenses. Everyone’s story varies, but it’s pretty common to address these with: Rent- get a roommate or rent a room instead of a one bedroom flat. Rent is reduced from $1400. Use a prepaid phone plan to reduce from $100. Use a slower speed or share internet to reduce from $100. Motorcycl…

There are a lot of inherent assumptions in your rebuttal.

>Rent- get a roommate or rent a room instead of a one bedroom flat. Rent is reduced from $1400.

While that is an option, it is not reasonable to make that assertion for the millions of people struggling without adequate housing. How can you tell people, with a straight face, that have been sexually assaulted, robbed, or battered by previous roommates that they should continue to put themselves at risk because they can't afford the market rate for a 1br apartment? Many people that are housing insecure face discrimination in their searches as well. Landlords have countless incentives and ways to refuse renting to people who they perceive as poor. Credit checks, wage statements, large cash deposits. Then there's everything they can learn during a showing. How do they dress, are they wearing Wal-Mart clothes or Patagonia? Did they bring their same sex partner? Are they BIPOC? Do they have a nice car or no car? Is everything they own in their car? I think that I've said enough to make this point but I can continue if you want.

>Use a prepaid phone plan to reduce from $100.

Phones are still several hundred dollars, and are effectively disposable items. In conversations about poor people we cannot assume they can afford to put up several hundred dollars for a used phone. $100 might be on the high end, but I am thinking more about the amortized all-in costs of phones. Stuff like cases, chargers, screen protectors, that often get sold to people at stores under high pressure sales tactics. We also need to consider access. If someone just broke their phone and need a new one ASAP or they'll lose their job they are at the mercy of what's available to them at that moment. They may not be able to shop around or know how to do a price comparison between providers. They may get coerced into signing expensive multi year contracts by dishonest sales reps of which the total cost is not apparent for weeks.

>Use a slower speed or share internet to reduce from $100.

That's not always an option. For years, the cheapest non-dsl, option available to me was cable internet, for over $100/mo without a contact. For people with housing insecurity signing multi year contracts is scary because they have no reason to believe they will live in the same place for that long.

>Motorcycle or cheaper car to reduce from $530.

Motorcycles are not a rational option for virtually everyone. They're unsafe, and at greater risk of being stolen in the areas poor people are congregated. I'm not saying the car payment is $400, but ones either paying more upfront for a reliable vehicle or on the back end in repairs. If one gets burned enough by scam repair shops and used car sales people they'll inevitably look to cars with manufacturer warranties. Poor areas have more sketchy repair shops and high pressure used car sales lots that straddle people with high interest car payments, even if they qualify for great rates.

>These aren’t impossible problems and are things that are really common to deal with. I worked with people in Manhattan who slept three to a bed. That obviously sucks but assuming that every single person should have a one bedroom flat with their own car and luxury internet and phone is not as good an assumption that people will adjust their spending.

I think you're making wide assumptions that are not reflective of the reality poor people face. It is callous to assume that poor people have the same ability and education to know how to navigate things like loans, auto repair, comparison shopping, house hunting, etc while they're possibly homeless and probably working in excess of 40 hour weeks barely scraping by. This is my lived experience, I've seen too many families that do everything right get absolutely crushed into homelessness because the company the worked for blew up, they got scammed, or were disabled by a workplace accident. These conversations are overly reductive when we cannot focus on the specific contexts under which people fall out of 'normal' society into homelessness or near homelessness. Without this context we cannot have reasoned discussions about the factors that lead to homelessness and prevent people from escaping.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For start, people are allowed to work also in other places.

If they have a better option than their current one, why don't they take it? Their second best option would typically pay less, meaning the workers would die off even faster.

There are many effects here, for start if food places start going bankrupt remaining ones can raise prices and pay some sensible wage.

And anyway, if getting unemployed means that you will die - then society has a large problems. (assuming country in XXI century, does not apply to historic situation where resources were not sufficient to feed everyone)

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, no education, no experience jobs are the norm. Does that restaurant pay incoming career food service staff a wage sufficient to raise a family on? A solid third of the households in the US take in under 50k/yr. More than half that are under 25k. I don't know about you, but 37k doesn't go far. Assuming 30% effective tax rate that's 2158/mo. 1 bed flat in my city $1400 Cell phone bill: $100 Home internet: $100 E…

30% is way to high an effective tax rate at that income. Below median earners pay effectively zero taxes with the EITC and standard deductible. $400 is way too high for a car payment. You can get a great used compact for $10k. With decent credit that’ll run you $150/month. $100 is way too high for home Internet. I pay $40/month for 100 mbps, which is more than enough for five decides to stream simultaneously. $1400 i…

Okay, half the tax rate and my point still stands. I responded to your other points in another comment of mine up thread. Feel free to address my rebuttal there.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#760
post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not someone’s being exploited isn’t determined by a wage. For example, my wife is an administrative assistant for an NGO. She makes about average for an administrative assistant, but that makes her one of the highest paid employees. Some of the employees are true believers and donate much of their salary back. Others are broke, and can hardly make it by. Most are women with husbands who make the real money…

I think you're trying to suggest that an NGO couldn't run without a low minimum wage because it couldn't afford it, but there are ways to structure an organization that society is willing to volunteer labour for without jacking up the rest of the community. I say that as someone with a partner in a very similar position to yours. No one is working at McDonalds out of the kindness of their heart. For my partner's work…

Ok, maybe a better example is being a secret agent for the CIA.

The CIA is able to recruit people for the Clandestine Service who could easily make millions at a bank. They get paid about 90k a year, for more work.

Why? Because they get to be freaking secret agents!

Are they being exploited? I know some folks who used to work for intelligence agencies. They seem to think so. The “secret agent” factor is bullshit. They have to live in high cost of living areas. And 99% of the time the job sucks.

Mostly just office work.

I certainly see something exploitive about that … offering one thing and not giving it.

The military is famous for that shit.

I’m sure there are other industries that do the same. Hollywood comes to mind. So does programming computer games. Etc.

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