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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

arstechnica.com

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#751

Post by cranekam »

boredatworkme wrote: post #567
cranekam wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their infra is generating those encryption certificates, so WhatsApp can very well decode the message and store it for further processing. This is incorrect. The sender's device generates the key with which it encrypts outgoing messages. WhatsApp's infra cannot see the content of any messages sent. (Source: ex-WhatsApp employee)

Appreciate your response. As a layman, if the service I'm using does not have access to any of the content of my messages, how would you (Whatsapp) be sharing my data? If whatsapp cannot read texts, images, location etc., then what gets shared with FB?

As https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy says, it's things like contact, status, profile pic, name, and so on.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#752

Post by llampx »

emteycz wrote: post #717
ravingraven wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities [...] Our generation is reinventing the wheel here, our ancestors had exactly the same problems with the power, water, gas, telephone and rail networks (at some point in time, all those were unregulated and privately owned) and did exactly that. Critical infrastructure needs to be heavily, regulated if not outright publicly owned.

Sure, let's make the public alternative, but I am strongly against taking over businesses.

I am strongly for taking over businesses which are de facto monopolies.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#753

Post by hkt »

tdubhro1 wrote: post #692
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

I tried to run a branch of a charity without WhatsApp and Facebook for two years and it was impossible. I had to give in and sign up.

So, these things should be regulated and operated like utilities. Phone companies don't have the right to mine my contact list, and neither should Facebook.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#754

Post by fsflover »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #223
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

See elsewhere in this discussion why Signal is not much better:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25668547

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669657

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25668659

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#755

Post by hkt »

ravingraven wrote: post #691
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

>Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities [...] Our generation is reinventing the wheel here, our ancestors had exactly the same problems with the power, water, gas, telephone and rail networks (at some point in time, all those were unregulated and privately owned) and did exactly that. Critical infrastructure needs to be heavily, regulated if not outright publicly owned.

Amen.

Not to forget the things that were in co-operative ownership, either.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#756

Post by samoa42 »

huhtenberg wrote: post #571
pvtmert wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, just deny the request and add contacts in Telegram. At least in android, I denied contact list and manually adding relevant ones to telegram.

That's not possible in the iOS version. Tapping on + pops up a request to grant Contacts access.

one can add new contacts to telegram via the desktop app

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#757

Post by llampx »

tomp wrote: post #710
rusk wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it even with click thru agreement like this it is still illegal in the EU. Could be an interesting case on the way... I believe that WhatsApp only real option in this case is to stop serving the EU, which I feel as an EU residents could only be a good thing!

Who cares if it's "technically illegal" if there's no fines for it. I seriously doubt that the EU will grow teeth anytime soon (but I hope to be surprised!).

What's the alternative? Has the FTC, FCC or any other US agency taken any action against the American big tech companies?

The US sees FAANG as its babies and will protect them at all costs. Its up to the rest of the world to rein them in.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#758

Post by timvisee »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Ditched it about 2 years ago. And man, it's so hard! Literally everybody uses it here in the Netherlands as well.

I'm getting strange looks every day when people hear I don't use the platform. It's horrendous.

I also really fear for the moment where I've to tell a nice girl I met that I don't use the platform, and that we should use X other platform instead. I can imagine that to be a letdown or to be weird. That's insane to me.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#759

Post by worldsayshi »

GuB-42 wrote: post #734
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

In France, SMS is still the most common, even though it is declining. I think it is historic: we had cheap unlimited SMS plans before internet data plans were common. WhatsApp is popular but not a monopoly. Not really something to celebrate since its main "competitor" and #1 instant messenger app is Facebook Messenger. Skype and Discord are also significant, and I expect iMessage to be important too.

But with SMS group messaging is rather cumbersome no?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#760

Post by ksec »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Blame Carrier. Modern SMS could have been great, but Carrier didn't want to lose the however minimal revenue they had with SMS. ( Not every countries has unlimited SMS across all Network and across the world )

Or Blame MSN, the Instant Messenger, when Microsoft refuse to admit defeat to the Smartphone platform.

So WhatsApp took over in EU ( I believe iMessages or SMS is still popular in France ), UK, SEA, Brazil, Hong Kong. Line in Japan and Taiwan, KakaoTalk in South Korea. Unsure about Australia and Canada. ( They use WhatsApp but not to the extent of countries listed above. )

And it is iMessages in US. I have no idea why that thing even took off. I have tried it dozen times over the years and every few months it has problem with message delivery, people in group not receiving any messages. Poor Searching capabilities etc....

Telegram has gain usage but for different kind of reason. And I dont see it ever being used in the same manner as WhatsApp.

So most of friends just clicked yes and share their Data. It is important to note despite the increasing hostility against FB on HN, and in Tech Circle, most people in the world seems to have no problem with it. I dont see WhatsApp going away any time soon.

Edit: How does this data sharing fit in with GDPR in EU?

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