Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Richard M. Stallman resigns

fsf.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

751–760 of 1001 posts

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#751

Post by colechristensen »

craigsmansion wrote: post #722
colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

RMS was pointing out inaccuracies in how a deceased colleague who was being accused of a heinous crime might simply have slept with a prostitute, if at all (which turns out probably wasn't the case). > This is a man who said something wildly inappropriate in an MIT forum and got fired. This is a man who said something mildly inappropriate in a forum, as is his wont. > He deserved it. A completely appropriate and reas…

From the thread in question:

>When this email chain inevitably finds its way into the press, the seeming insensitivity of some will reflect poorly on the entire CSAIL community. Regardless of intent, this thread reads as "grasping at straws to defend our friends" around potential involvement with Epstein, and that isn't a reputation I would like attached to my CSAIL affiliation.

What do you think as an administrator if you see a comment like that about one of your prominent employees?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#752

Post by [deleted] »

roguecoder wrote: post #724
syrrim wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He disagreed with the wording "assault" which he felt was ambiguous. He would almost certainly have been fine with the wording "had sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island". I'm sure a number of other wordings that call into question said girl's consent, the legal status of said girl on said private island with regards to sex, and so on would have been fine as well.

That is what “defending” means: he took objection to what Minsky allegedly did being accurately characterised as assault and a crime. Plenty of criminals take objection to their crimes being described as crimes, but “men should be allowed to have sex with underaged girls” is a particularly self-serving and gross position for a man in a position of power over young women to take.

[deleted]

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#753

Post by borski »

roguecoder wrote: post #724
syrrim wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He disagreed with the wording "assault" which he felt was ambiguous. He would almost certainly have been fine with the wording "had sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island". I'm sure a number of other wordings that call into question said girl's consent, the legal status of said girl on said private island with regards to sex, and so on would have been fine as well.

That is what “defending” means: he took objection to what Minsky allegedly did being accurately characterised as assault and a crime. Plenty of criminals take objection to their crimes being described as crimes, but “men should be allowed to have sex with underaged girls” is a particularly self-serving and gross position for a man in a position of power over young women to take.

To be fair, I don’t think he said it wasn’t a crime. He simply didn’t think it equated to the same moral depravity as sexual (physical) assault, hence why he thought it should have a different term to describe it.

Not defending it, but characterizing his words correctly in context.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#754

Post by dijit »

roguecoder wrote: post #724
syrrim wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He disagreed with the wording "assault" which he felt was ambiguous. He would almost certainly have been fine with the wording "had sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island". I'm sure a number of other wordings that call into question said girl's consent, the legal status of said girl on said private island with regards to sex, and so on would have been fine as well.

That is what “defending” means: he took objection to what Minsky allegedly did being accurately characterised as assault and a crime. Plenty of criminals take objection to their crimes being described as crimes, but “men should be allowed to have sex with underaged girls” is a particularly self-serving and gross position for a man in a position of power over young women to take.

You’re talking about a man who was pedantic about language his entire life.

It’s not the same as a rapist saying “it wasn’t rape, she didn’t say no” especially since he wasn’t the implicated party.

In fact I don’t see him not stating it’s not a crime or not morally bankrupt by itself either.

Assaulted does carry a particular connotation does it not? Assaulted meaning, in the biblical sense: attacked.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#755

Post by raxxorrax »

chasing wrote: post #691
raxxorrax wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your "inclusivity" stops at Stallman, it seriously lacks performance. You use the wrong word. What you desire is conformity. edit: Additionally, because I think this isn't obvious here, Stallman opened up the knowledge about software to the whole world and put energy in keeping it that way. Anyone was able to profit from this.

> What you desire is conformity. Inasmuch as any organization must have a set of goals and principles that everyone within that organization must adhere to: Yes! No one has taken away Stallman’s freedom of speech.

Then just say that you want conformity to your social norms instead of inclusiveness and be more precise with your statements, please.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#756

Post by darkwater »

steveeq1 wrote: post #498
darkwater wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite certain that in '50s USA there were almost no problem saying racist comments and jokes in front of a public audience, but decades later there were. And I guess people from those same '50s were complaining during this change period that they could not express their opinions freely.

You can apply the same reasoning to rappers today, yet there is no public outrage.

I'd say that the fact that rappers using the N-word are part of the community for whom the word was created as an insult it's crucial enough, wouldn't you? Just like I can talk shit of my family but you can't.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#757

Post by cf141q5325 »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

>RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island.

Which until a few years ago was completely legal in for example Switzerland. As long of course as no one is coerced into anything. Playing the Advocatus Diaboli, why should i view this outcry as anything different then the Saudis stance on sex before marriage? Fundamentalist puritans being opposed to self determination shaming others into conformism? Its not like the US where you cant drink until you are 21, but get to join the army with 18, where sex ed is often reduced to abstinence only, where the government does its best to infringe into womens right to get abortions, where you can be prosecuted for sexting as a minor and lets not forgett where sex workers are almost across the country criminalized has any moral high ground on the topic what so ever.

But thats besides the point. First the MIT donation and now this stuff over 3 corners. How about we focus on what actually is the problem here? How many people from both parties had connections to not a brothel owner but someone involved in human trafficking and coercing minors into sexwork? How he got away with this this despite being brought infront of a judge for it? Or why they were on that island in the first place and why Eppstein apparently invited so many people. The word compromat comes to mind. But these politicians arent so easy targets, people like Stallman or the guy at MIT are. The mob wants blood and it doesnt seem to matter whos. I would recommend checking your moral compass if you are at threat of being sued for slander after the discussion here.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#758

Post by kazinator »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

> The firing was appropriate and reasonable, not a response to extremists, zealots, or some other kind of witch.

In a country where the current president was elected on a platform of "grab them by the pussy"? Ha.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#759

Post by rrss »

craigsmansion wrote: post #722
colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

RMS was pointing out inaccuracies in how a deceased colleague who was being accused of a heinous crime might simply have slept with a prostitute, if at all (which turns out probably wasn't the case). > This is a man who said something wildly inappropriate in an MIT forum and got fired. This is a man who said something mildly inappropriate in a forum, as is his wont. > He deserved it. A completely appropriate and reas…

> pointing out inaccuracies

But, he wasn't?

1. "Minsky has been accused of assault"

2. RMS: "you shouldn't call it assault - might give people the wrong idea"

3. "It would have been literally rape in the relevant territory, 'assault' is a fine word for it"

4. RMS: "ok, even if it's legally rape, it shouldn't morally be considered rape, so don't call it assault if it was 'just' statutory rape."

What inaccuracies did he point out? I see that he expressed his opinion that 'assault' is too strong a word for some cases of rape, but what inaccuracy was there in the original statement regarding the allegations about minsky?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#760

Post by atomashpolskiy »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

> RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused

So what? Lawyers do this all the time. Is it really important that the person accused was Stallman's friend?

Also, what's exactly wrong with an argument that one should not conflate "having sex with Bob" with "sexually assaulting Bob"?

Post reply on HN