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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#751

Post by ElCapitanMarkla »

raxxorrax wrote: post #634
kingkawn wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White supremacist terrorism cannot be directly ideologically challenged by our present political system in America because it is the founding ideology of the country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer

I think this statement is completely wrong and America is on of the most resistant countries against fascism because of its adherence to freedom which fascist really dislike.

Yeah, the current president loves it because he's free to spew complete lies 24/7.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#752

Post by onli »

jumbopapa wrote: post #743
onli wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

I genuinely do not believe the access to the guns are the issue here. There are plenty of ways to accomplish something like this without a gun, so removing the guns from the picture would just change the method. It's lazy to just say that "gun control will fix this" because you're ignoring solving the actual problem of why people are doing this.

I believe you that it's genuine. But no. Look at other countries. Look at the history of gun control laws in Germany or other countries and their effect. Shootings like this are 100% caused by the easy access to guns.

If someone does not have access to guns, it's harder to do something like this. It gives time to think again. Organizing different attacks gives law enforcement a chance to catch someone planning it beforehand.

HN is not the right forum to discuss this in detail, so I won't go further into this. But it's better to think about this than to follow Cloudflares lead.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#753

Post by dfox »

jorams wrote: post #700
toyg wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN. If there is a demand for specific niches, a supply will eventually emerge, like it has for porn.

> This actually happens in Europe, typically when authorities decide squatters should not be tolerated. How often does that happen in countries where squatting itself is not illegal?

I'm genuinely curious in which countries squatting is not illegal.

On the other hand cutting off utility service to squatters seems like somewhat different case and another thing I'm curious about is how the squatters managed to get the service itself in the first place as that usually requires either consent and active participation of previous user at the same address or proving that you have legal right to use the property.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#754

Post by Koshkin »

coldtea wrote: post #713
bubblewrap wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they are free to operate as they please. And people are free to dislike the way they operate.

Plus people are also free to want to change the law and make it non-free for them to operate as they please.

And there goes freedom.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#755

Post by bubblewrap »

coldtea wrote: post #713
bubblewrap wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they are free to operate as they please. And people are free to dislike the way they operate.

Plus people are also free to want to change the law and make it non-free for them to operate as they please.

Sure, people are free to want anything. Acting on their wants may be another thing.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#756

Post by onli »

distantsounds wrote: post #740
onli wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…

cloudflare isn't in the gun business, arguably it's in the speech business. why are you disappointed that they took action over part of the problem they have control over?

Because they just influenced public discourse in a negative way. They shouldn't have taken any action now. In two month would still be time to act on this if it's still deemed the right choice then.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#757

Post by nopacience »

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

As a private company, cloudflare is in the right to cut any clients at any time if the contract allows.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#758

Post by FourScore »

mort96 wrote: post #458
FourScore wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don't you see how the lines blue very quickly? It's not always as clear where morality lies as when some lunatic posts terroristic threats. Arbitrary value judgements must be made when enforcing censorship so censorship always leads to conflict between groups that disagree on what should be censored. That's why the best course of action is to not censor at all and allow the system to work itself out.

What system are you talking about if not the system where people and companies can choose who they wish to associate with? I should clarify, I'm not advocating complete freedom in this regard. We don't want a society where it's hard to be a gay person because lots of companies deny service to homosexuals. However, we also can't claim that every company should always have to serve everyone. There is certainly some nua…

I'll be very clear about what I want. I want companies that facilitate speech to be forced to tolerate all legal speech on their platforms. It's that simple.

In the 1700's, when we were having the debate over speech protected from government interference, someone could have easily said "yes well if you don't like the government's policies you should go to another country!"

The existence of alternatives is irrelevant to the fact that freedom of speech is sacred and forums for speech - public or private - must never infringe upon its freedom.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#759

Post by raxxorrax »

king_magic wrote: post #716
qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I may disagree with what you say but will defend with you your right to say it.” - Voltaire

Those always sounded like noble, wise words. And maybe they once were. But in age when white supremacy/fascism/nazism/strongman-leader-ism is rising again, I’m no longer sure I agree with them.

Then you probably never shared these values to begin with.

Voltaire probably wasn't someone that would give up freedoms out of fear of negligent threats.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#760

Post by gspetr »

blacklight86 wrote: post #623
Lazare wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they're violating your freedom of speech. Popper taught us th…

I know that the American legislation is quite laissez-faire when it comes to defamation than in other countries (Canada, the UK and most of the European countries). But it still exists and I believe that the 8chan case still violated what's the defamation/slander bar in the US. According to these guys http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/ there's defamation when the defendant: Published or otherwise broadcast…

If you wish to deplatform based on broadcasting a killer's message then a lot (probably almost all) of newspapers would have to be closed.

Consider Zodiac killer's letters or Breivik's manifesto. If copycat killers arise saying they were inspired by reading their letters/manifestos in San Francisco Chronicle/BBC respectively, should these media outlets be closed and/or deplatformed?

This seems to be no different than wanting to ban/close car manufacturers for 2016 Nice truck attack in France, leaving 87 dead.

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