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We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

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Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#751

Post by WalterBright »

stale2002 wrote: post #718
WalterBright wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can just lie about my current salary, and easily get away with, as I have done so multiple times in the past, as well as has many other people that I know. You're not fooling employers, they likely know you and your friends are lying, and discount the offer accordingly. Try bringing a paystub next time, your prospective employer will appreciate it. It's worked out well for me. There have been some high profile ca…

> You're not fooling employers, they likely know you and your friends are lying, and discount the offer accordingly. It's worked out pretty damn well for me and my friends, actually. I've gotten multiple 25% raises, each time by doing that. (Along with a healthy dose of job hopping) > were discovered to have lied on their resume I've never lied on my resume. Only about salaries, while talking to someone in negotiatio…

> The employer makes blatant lies all the time in negotiations, also.

I've heard such justifications for submitting fraudulent college applications, cheating in college, doping in sports, etc.

I've done significantly better than my peers with salaries, without lying about it.

Remember that fable about Steve Jobs' dad painting the back of the fence that no one would ever see? My father once told me that honor is what separates men from animals. Honor is what you do when nobody is looking. How much is your honor worth to you? I'm no saint, but wanting my father to be proud of me is worth a lot to me, even though he's passed away.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#752

Post by anotheryou »

Rotdhizon wrote: post #597
revvx wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thing happen to me a couple times. Long and tiring process. Blackboard, make a project, lots of dirty laundry about "long gone incompetent developers" that made the current system a giant mess. Lots of red flags but lots of promises including a large maximum salary, including bonuses and stock options. The final offer, however, was 60% of my current pay. Lower than the average for someone with my exper…

Would it be possible to tell the recruiter/company something like "This is my current salary and I will not settle for less. So far you have hyped up this position as high paying. From this point forward if you offer me anything less than my current salary, the interview process will be ended and you will be billed for the time of mine you wasted"?

Than you'd get 10% more max, no? Without the disclosure it could be more.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#753

Post by badpun »

TheLuddite wrote: post #712
badpun wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleagues can usually tell, tech lead less so, and manager is often clueless. Basically the only way to judge someone’s output is to work alongside him for a couple months, and only a few colleagues in the team do that. Maybe methodically reviewing someone’s commits every 6 months or so would also work, but that ignores one’s input into decision making, help and mentoring of colleagues etc.

And what will happen if they do a bad work at this? Someone is going to die? No. Someones useless iPhone app will collapse on them? No.

Are you arguing that all non-critical work is meaningless?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#754

Post by duxup »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #717
duxup wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5k... and god knows how much lost productivity. That's just penny wise and pound foolish... but also IMO a bad sign if that is how they make decisions. After the housing bubble burst I decided it was time to buy a new house. I made an offer on a house and we went back and forth but we hit the ceiling I was willing to pay so we went our separate ways. After the seller had an agreement with two other families fall thro…

Hell, I've literally asked for a non-pay title increase and been shot down before. I was doing significantly more than the job description and literally doubled my salary at the next place. I was not paid well and didn't realize my worth. Now I'm on the other end and despite 3 people accepting offers they all back out on the hire date for a reason no one seems to want to share. There's things I can fix, things I can'…

Non pay title increase, that's like free to them... wtf.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#755

Post by rubicon33 »

seattle_spring wrote: post #600
rubicon33 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB. Or at least, JavaScript and similar languages make programming much, much easier (and hence the barrier to entry much easier). As coding difficulty drops, and supply increases, the net effect will be a much higher demand for jobs than supply. And that's exactly where big tech w…

> A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB I actually love it when a developer says something like this, because it tells me way more than even 2 full days of pairing or interviewing could: They know absolutely nothing about software at scale, and are probably extremely arrogant to boot.

I actually love it when I get a response just like yours.

It informs me that you're probably a JQuery developer, personally offended because you believe that your work is incredibly advanced and challenging. In reality, what you do is probably some of the easiest "coding" to have ever come to fruition. Yet, you toss out the "at scale" comment ad nauseam because you think it'll make you sound important.

Just by the fact that you denounce anyone who recognizes the simplicity of it modern development tools shows me you probably fail to recognize the simplicity yourself. Or you don't want to admit the simple fact that programming has gotten much easier. That's been intent of so many modern languages, yet we're always going to have someone like you who claims we all don't know what we're talking about because we've never built anything "at scale".

Your 10,000 hits / day blog isn't "scale" buddy.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#756

Post by stale2002 »

WalterBright wrote: post #751
stale2002 wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not fooling employers, they likely know you and your friends are lying, and discount the offer accordingly. It's worked out pretty damn well for me and my friends, actually. I've gotten multiple 25% raises, each time by doing that. (Along with a healthy dose of job hopping) > were discovered to have lied on their resume I've never lied on my resume. Only about salaries, while talking to someone in negotiatio…

> The employer makes blatant lies all the time in negotiations, also. I've heard such justifications for submitting fraudulent college applications, cheating in college, doping in sports, etc. I've done significantly better than my peers with salaries, without lying about it. Remember that fable about Steve Jobs' dad painting the back of the fence that no one would ever see? My father once told me that honor is what…

> I've done significantly better than my peers with salaries, without lying about it.

Thats great. But the other strategy, of engaging in successful negotiation tactics, has also worked out quite well for me.

So it seems like the strategy can be successful.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#757

Post by jobthrowaway420 »

throwaway_9168 wrote: post #658
jobthrowaway420 wrote: post #9

Made my first ever HN throwaway account to respond to this. I have been running a successful business, but it's not "tech". I want to get back into the software industry. I didn't have a software business idea, so I explored some tech company jobs. I am well-qualified at the VP/Director level for startups and even larger companies. I did go so far as to do an on-site interview for one company. I have verifiable proof…

>>I'm now starting a software company. So are you going to a) hire the best developer you know and pay them whatever they ask, or b) hire the best developer who falls within your budget (which, I presume, cannot be very high when you are starting) If you answered b), then I guess you already know the problem. No matter how qualified you personally think you are (and you are, I am not doubting that) - the only thing t…

Huh? No, I'm writing the software myself.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#758

Post by jdhn »

beager wrote: post #622
j79 wrote: post #455

After moving to California in 2011, I decided I missed the office banter and started looking for a job. I found a listing on a large, tech-based recruiting firm (cybercoders) and the job was perfect for my skills. I applied but heard nothing back. After a week I reached out to the recruiter, and she replied with a curt, "You're not qualified for this role so we're looking elsewhere." I was a bit surprised as the reqs…

Cybercoders is particularly dysfunctional. Avoid at all costs.

Completely agree. I'm still getting emails from them for positions that have the word "designer" in them. Turns out that there's a lot of positions not in the tech world that have the word "designer" in the job title.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#759

Post by GordonS »

starky wrote: post #594
jarsin wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand why these companies are letting inexperienced employees take any part in interviewing people with significantly more experience. If I owned a company I would never let some inexperienced fresh grad interview a senior engineer. They are letting some kid take part in one of the most important parts of their business. It's yet another area of software development hiring where all logic and reason h…

I started interviewing candidates (including senior level) about 3 years after starting there. Despite being one of the youngest people on the team, the management knew that I had a good grasp on what the people we are interviewing should know to be successful at the company. I'm never the only person interviewing them, but I do have a strong say about whether someone moves to the next round.

I also did my first interviews around 3 years into my career (almost 2 decades long so far).

It was too early - I didn't have the technical expertise yet to judge someone else, but much more than that, I didn't have the soft skills or indeed any idea how the hell to interview another dev. I shouldn't have been doing it, but at the time I was the only dev at the company. I look back now and cringe at my naivety.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#760

Post by GordonS »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #11

It sounds to me that this might be a problem with startups. I've been working in the enterprise space for 5 years, and I've never come across this sort of hiring. The last job I applied for was open from February 1 - March 1. After that, they pulled it down and began interviewing candidates. Six weeks later, I have an offer letter for a specific role with a well-negotiated compensation package. Personally if HR treat…

Also in the enterprise space, but for almost 2 decades. This stuff absolutely exists, and in Europe as well as the US. Fact is, the recruitment process is broken as hell - seems like it's been this way forever, with no light at the end of the tunnel :/
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