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My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

andrewkelley.me

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Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#741

Post by lolinder »

hoppp wrote: post #430
Jarred wrote: post #274

I have learned so much reading Andrew’s code and as I said in the original post: Bun would never have happened without Zig. > The post claims they were fuzzing their Zig code, while during our calls the whole Bun team told us that they were not fuzzing anything. This appears to be an outright fabrication. Fuzzilli integration: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/24826 Merged PRs fixing issues Fuzzilli found in Bun’s…

Andrew means the zig build test --fuzz command probably the built in zig fuzzer, that's the tool that is in his scope.

If that's what he meant that doesn't speak well for his communication in this post, because "the Bun team told us that they were not fuzzing anything" is a wildly different claim than "the Bun team told us they weren't using a specific tool for fuzzing".

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#742

Post by lolinder »

nsagent wrote: post #324
Jarred wrote: post #274

I have learned so much reading Andrew’s code and as I said in the original post: Bun would never have happened without Zig. > The post claims they were fuzzing their Zig code, while during our calls the whole Bun team told us that they were not fuzzing anything. This appears to be an outright fabrication. Fuzzilli integration: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/24826 Merged PRs fixing issues Fuzzilli found in Bun’s…

Your links show you used a fuzzer, but that doesn't address the other half of Andrew's statement. Is Andrew misreporting/misremembering your conversations? EDIT: It's really telling that asking a factual clarification question is somehow downvote worthy. I probably shouldn't be surprised, but this epitomizes the reason online discussions devolve in to flame wars (even moreso than real life, though it happens more and…

No one's obliged to respond to hearsay by trying to guess what the other party might have misheard to arrive at a false conclusion. It's enough to demonstrate that the conclusion they came to was false, and if the other party would like to defend themselves they're welcome to explain why they came to that misunderstanding.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#743

Post by jazzypants »

tomnipotent wrote: post #713
jazzypants wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that all ziglings refuse to write idiomatic code, have public fights with the language maintainers, and then write giant blog posts about how they're ditching the language because it just isn't good enough?

> have public fights with the language maintainers Can you point to even one such example?

Here you go

https://xcancel.com/bunjavascript/status/2048427636414923250

https://ziggit.dev/t/bun-s-zig-fork-got-4x-faster-compilatio...

How many other Zig users publicly announced their unrequested fork of the language?

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#744

Post by fooster »

skydhash wrote: post #433
fooster wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So less meticulous care then?

Not really, as you always need to check back on your assertions, especially at the boundary points where information about types and ownership are more axiomatic than the result of logical inference.

Sure, but there are less assertions to check. The surface area and boundaries are smaller and more limited.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#745

Post by alfiedotwtf »

lins1909 wrote: post #129
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not accepting a PR because it was purely written by AI is like saying PRs will only be accepted if the developer used a standing desk for more than 75% of the time during the code's creation. In the end, as long as the code is not shit, who cares how the sausage was made!

I find it hard to believe you actually think those two things are similar or equivalent. I've heard many bad analogies in my life but this is so funny that it makes me think you're being sarcastic.

It’s the perfect analogy! People these days complain about AI are complaining about how the sausage was made rather than how the sausage tastes. Prove me wrong

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#746

Post by tomnipotent »

jazzypants wrote: post #743
tomnipotent wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have public fights with the language maintainers Can you point to even one such example?

Here you go https://xcancel.com/bunjavascript/status/2048427636414923250 https://ziggit.dev/t/bun-s-zig-fork-got-4x-faster-compilatio... How many other Zig users publicly announced their unrequested fork of the language?

It this a joke? Your example of Jarred starting fights in public is announcing fork then pointing to a thread where he didn't even participate but rather where members of the Zig community are slinging mud?

> unrequested fork

No such thing exists.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#748

Post by manquer »

simonw wrote: post #150
kristoff_it wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a 100% on point analysis, there was a lot of hype around Bun since the beginning when it was an invite only project. Arguably that same interest is what got Jarred VC funding in the first place. Note that usage and public interest are not the same quantity, people also care about the potential of a project.

A project getting hype does not mean that same project could sustain itself through crowdfunding.

True, it alone cannot help, however hype begets following which helps in crowdfunding.

The dynamics are not any different from content creators translating their following to income on Patreon -larger the following better the chances.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#749

Post by manquer »

Jyaif wrote: post #8

> he could have easily achieved a solid living via crowdfunding, even for San Francisco standards. That sounds completely surreal. Is Bun really used that much?

"Crowdfunding" here likely means a bit differently than gofundme style projects - it is not $1-2 monthly contributions from individual developers donating from their personal money. It would be quite impossible to fund any kind of salary with that as you imagine.

It is closer to corporate sponsorships, plenty of projects[1] can pull in few hundred thousand a year.

The post itself talks about a $5k/month donation from Bun to Zig Foundation. ZSF generates about a half million in donations https://ziglang.org/news/2025-financials/

The "crowdfunding" term is here to contrast direct VC funding (that Bun took) from a single source to more diffuse(albeit smaller) funding that ZSF style projects operate under. Without VC funding Bun wouldn't need to , and if non profit 501(x) then simply not even be to consider an acquisition from Anthropic.

Of course Zig (and other projects) benefit from indirect VC funding too - Bun could only afford to donate $5k/ month on Zig because they took VC money after all.

We can always keep going down this secondary/tertiary effects for any tech funding it would unavoidable even with direct small donations - people who contribute are likely drawing salary from VC funded companies, and would contribute less if market goes south and funding plus jobs dry up. . The idea being the level of influence from corporate goal pressure reduces with degrees of separation.

There is a good amount history of this model. Linus Torvalds work itself is by funded by Linux Foundation through a fellowship. LSF charges $500,000 from their 12 Platinum members that includes Microsoft. Nvidia is a silver member, he has famously used some colorful language against both in the past, which in theory would be lot more difficult without the diffuse structure LSF generates funding ( compared to direct employment/VC funding).

[1]That isn't to say that a lot of core projects the entire internet economy depends on is maintained by one guy in Nebraska voluntarily without any support.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#750

Post by em-bee »

account42 wrote: post #739
em-bee wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cannot even "shameless copy" from something that is asking the world to copy from it yes you can if you do not honor the license that the original was released under. that's why we use FOSS licenses in the first place some FOSS licenses are intended to insure that the code remains open even after modification. that's used by anyone for anything under the same license.

And even permissive licenses generally require that you at least credit the original authors.

good point. LLM code doesn't even do that.
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